Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

[Riccardo Mottola]

Hi Liam,

On 2021-12-16 17:22:07 +0100 Liam Proven <lproven@gmail.com> wrote:

> 
>> To my knowledge it is outdated, last referenced version I see is 2017.
> 
> That's odd. I do not see the message you're replying to in this thread.
> 
> Anyway, yes, there was a demo LiveCD, and also a (IMHO very cluttered) VM 
> image.
> 
> But that makes the system look outdated & archaic.

I agree, the last version of the LiveCD was cluttered, incomplete too and had 
issues; it was never sorted out. Also it was a very strange combination of BSD 
kernel with Debian. I would prefer one or the other.

One Step to GNUstep instead was very plished and complete, but only a VM.

The LiveCD was assembled with Debian packages, so there was the issue of 
non-present packages and release-cycles. I remember Gürkan had to fight with 
these and take compromises. It was still quite some work he did


> I submit we need installable binary packages for at least 1 current,
> mainstream Linux distro, making it as easy to get a GNUstep system up
> and running as it is to get any other Linux desktop environment.

Debian offers current packages and installing them is easy.
Gentoo does too.

> 
> No, not BSD; while I admire all the BSDs, they are not beginner-friendly OSes.

Debatable… I use all of them, and was amazed at how "easy" BSDs have become. 
True, you need not to fear the command line, but beginners are not alike, some 
are not stupid, just beginners.
NetBSD, OpenBSD carry GNUstep packages and they provide binary packages.

Installing on an Intel Laptop was a piece of cake, all setup with questions, 
then with "pkgin install xxx" "pkg 
> 
> No, *not* as a set of programming tools, although that is appealing.
> Why? Because nowhere near as many people _write_ code as _use_ code.
> 
> As a way of saying that GNUstep is alive and well, the best demo I can
> think of is, for example, a current Ubuntu preinstalled with GNUstep &
> as many GNUstep apps as possible, ready to install and use. To show
> off the apps and that it is a rich and mature framework.

That's the Idea of a LiveCD, but if you think, it is only a partial view of 
what GNUstep can, becaus eyou see only the output. However, I like the idea, 
because it is the less known part of GNUstep: a usable environment, with apps, 
etc. Unfrotunately, not of such big impact.. but it can be improved.

Most often GNustep is seeked only for its porting possibilities… so we need to 
balance tht.

Still, the LiveCD needs to carry all development tools, because it is quick to 
play with an example, like a graphical hello world.

> I know, there's no "native" web browser. That is not a biggie; just
> bundle Firefox. To be ambitious, take the Javascript plugin that
> Ubuntu used to integrate Firefox into Unity and make it display
> GNUstep style menus instead.

That could be interesting to integrate with our menus, however latest Firefox 
killed menus and post-Quantum series have really terrible menus, so I would 
just package Firefox as-is. It is becoming a UX of its own.

Riccardo

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