Re: [Denemo-devel] trouble creating parts

[Richard Shann]

On Tue, 2016-11-15 at 12:35 -0800, Donald J. Stewart wrote:
> OK, I see that I'm using incorrect terminology.
> 
> What I *need* to do is to is create an instrumental part from the full 
> score that I can edit.
> 
> The full score is written for 2 trumpets, timpani and SATB choir.
> 
> I want to extract the trumpets (and timpani) from the score, then edit 
> those scores in Denemo.

To typeset just those three parts you have two routes:

1)
Change the partname of the three staffs to be the same (click on the
partname above the clef/key/time at the start of the staff to get the
built-in staff properties dialog and change the Part Name field to
something like "ttt" - you can put the current part name, which is set
to the instrument name in the Sub Part field).
Now when you click "Part" in the Print View it will typeset these three
staffs, because they all have the same partname, "ttt".

2)
Create a custom score layout consisting of these three staffs. To do
this choose View->Score Layout and then "Customize". Do not replace the
default score layout (as you will still want that, no doubt) but give
your layout a name of your choosing.
Then, in the layout view use buttons marked "X" to delete all the staffs
you don't need and click Typeset.

You should only use option (2) once you have finished the Titles,
margins and so on as these are all "embedded" in the customized score
layout, which means if you change them you will have to delete and
re-create your custom layout (or edit the LilyPond syntax directly).

There are pros and cons to these two methods - if you want to know more
once you have played with these two methods ask again...

> 
> What I'm noticing is that the PDF *Part* that is created in Denemo Print 
> View creates blank lines when there is no music to print.

This is because you have set "Hide Empty Staffs" on the movement. You
have hit on something unusual here: Hide Empty Staffs is for the full
orchestral score where you want to parts that are resting for the whole
of a system to vanish, to reduce the space needed on the page. What you
have found is that it doesn't make sense if you are printing just one
part, since having it vanish just leaves the bar numbering and rehearsal
marks and nothing else.
To fix this:
        First typeset the "Trumpet in C" layout by putting the cursor in one of
the staffs with part name "Trumpet in C" and clicking "Part" in the
Print View.
        Then go to Movements->Movement Properties Editor
and on the Denemo Directive labelled "Hide Empty Staffs" click the
"Conditional" button and set the condition to be "Ignore for Trumpet in
C". This will mean that when using the "Trumpet in C" layout the
directive will be ignored.

Now click "Part" again, and now the systems where both trumpets are
resting will print.

>  It also ignores 
> the Rehearsal marks where there is no music.

I think you've made a mistaken observation here - it should show
rehearsal marks as well as bar numbers while hiding resting parts.

>  In other words, the full 
> score shows rehearsal marks to letter M, and the trumpet parts prints 
> rehearsal marks to letter K (I assume it's because it doesn't print the 
> rehearsal marks in measures without music).

I'm seeing it printing the rehearsal marks to K on bar 85 in both cases
- attached is the typesets with/without conditional set on the Hide
Empty Staffs directive. When hidden the bar number 76 appears over a
blank area (both trumpets are resting for the whole system) but the last
rehearsal mark is still K. (This is based on the version you posted
earlier - you may have added further rehearsal marks since).

> 
> I've also noticed that Denemo Print View doesn't print text direction 

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "text direction", it will print what
are called "Mark"s in LilyPond terminology - that is stuff (like
rehearsal marks) that are to appear just once, above the system, rather
than repeated on each staff. 

HTH


Richard


> in 
> measures without music, as well.
> 
> On Tuesday, November 15, 2016 8:08:08 PM PST Richard Shann wrote:
> > On Tue, 2016-11-15 at 10:28 -0800, Donald J. Stewart wrote:
> > > First of all, I may be 'drawing parts' incorrectly. I see that in the
> > > editor itself (not Denemo Print View), there is
> > > 
> > > Staffs/Voices->Voices->Create Parts
> > 
> > The help for this command is:
> > 
> > Create three parts from the current staff.
> > 
> > That's hopelessly cryptic. What it means is if you have chords of three
> > notes in a staff it will split them up into three parts (each part, as
> > usual in the Denemo Display/Edit Window is on a separate staff).
> > You don't want this.
> > 
> > > or
> > > 
> > > Staffs/Voices->Voices->Create Parts (Treble First)
> > 
> > Help for this is:
> > Creates a set of parts extracting the highest part first.
> > 
> > Likewise - this just extracts the parts in the opposite order.
> > 
> > > OR in Denemo Print View, there is a 'Part' button.
> > 
> > This typesets the part that the cursor is on in the Denemo Display/Edit
> > Window. A part may be more than one staff (look for the partname at 
> top
> > left of the staff).
> > 
> > > In Denemo Print View, when I click the Part button (and my cursor in 
> the
> > > Denemo editor is on the corresponding staff), Denemo Print View
> > > displays
> > 
> > well, it *typesets* it, it creates the LilyPond syntax for the part and
> > then runs the LilyPond typesetter on it and displays the result.
> > 
> > >  the part.
> > > 
> > > It is at this point that I don't know how to 'edit' the newly created part
> > > in the Denemo editor.
> > 
> > To create a part you use Staffs/Voices->Add Staff, or if you want the
> > part to be on the same staff as one already present (i.e. a voice) you
> > use Staffs/Voices->Voices->Add Voice
> > then you populate it with music, and it will be typeset when you click
> > on one of the typesetting buttons in the Print View (or when you use
> > File->Print menu commands).
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I think the problem may be terminology - separate rhythmic music on 
> one
> > staff is called VOICEs in Denemo, a PART is all the staffs with the same
> > part name (e.g. Piano/lh Piano/rh) - usually just one staff, or one
> > staff with several voices on it.
> > 
> > 
> > HTH
> > 
> > Richard
> > 
> > >  I can create a PDF, but when I 'Typeset' the score,
> > > 
> > > nothing seems to happen.
> > > 
> > > Conversely, if I go into
> > > 
> > > Staffs/Voices->Voices->Create Parts, it creates a number of new staves 
> in
> > > my score, but no part. I'm not even quite sure what it's doing. Here, 
> I'm
> > > almost positive that I'm doing something wrong.
> > > 
> > > On Tuesday, November 15, 2016 10:41:23 AM PST Richard Shann 
> wrote:
> > > > On Mon, 2016-11-14 at 21:49 -0800, Donald J. Stewart wrote:
> > > > > On Saturday, November 12, 2016 12:30:07 PM PST Richard Shann
> > > 
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > Sorry! There *is* a serious-looking error in the file as you
> > > > > > originally
> > > > > > posted it; near the top there is:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > #(define denemo-top-margin ...for they shall...)
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > where the red-highlighting starts.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > it seems that in setting the top margin you inserted the text "...
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > they shall ..." instead of a number (such as 20). I deleted this and
> > > > > > then ran typeset and got the sort of warning messages I wrote
> > > 
> > > about
> > > 
> > > > > > below (they refer to another copy of your file that I extracted by
> > > > > > tortuous means earlier...)
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > It would be good for those margin setting commands to test out
> > > 
> > > the
> > > 
> > > > > > syntax for validity before letting you insert things like that, I've
> > > > > > put
> > > > > > a bug report in for this.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > You would normally expect to be able to fix this by re-running 
> the
> > > > > > margin command, but in this case the bad value persists. To fix
> > > 
> > > your
> > > 
> > > > > > score open up Score->Score Properties Editor and delete the
> > > 
> > > TopMargin
> > > 
> > > > > > directive. There is a second TopMargin directive, which is (I 
> guess)
> > > 
> > > the
> > > 
> > > > > > one where you re-edited the top margin.
> > > > > 
> > > > > This worked. But what if I need to edit the new part?
> > > > 
> > > > which part is "the new part", and what could stop you editing a 
> part?
> > > > 
> > > > >  For example, I think
> > > > > 
> > > > > because I chose to 'hide empty measures',
> > > > 
> > > > which command are you referring to here? (The best way to be 
> exact in
> > > > describing a command is to look it up in the Command Center (e.g. 
> via
> > > > right-clickon the menu item->Open Command Center on this
> > > 
> > > Command) and
> > > 
> > > > then copy and paste the description panel.
> > > > 
> > > > >  a number of measures don't
> > > > > 
> > > > > show up.
> > > > 
> > > > "show up" in the Denemo Display or the Print View?
> > > > 
> > > > > Is this normal behavior? Or is there something I have done
> > > 
> > > incorrectly?
> > > 
> > > > I'm struggling to understand the problem - perhaps a screenshot of
> > > 
> > > what
> > > 
> > > > you have and a description of what you are trying to do? Or create a
> > > > tiny example of what you find to be problematic?
> > > > 
> > > > Richard
> > > > 
> > > > > > Let me know when if you have a problem deleting this bad 
> directive.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Richard
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > On Sat, 2016-11-12 at 11:53 +0000, Richard Shann wrote:
> > > > > > > On Sat, 2016-11-12 at 10:14 +0000, Richard Shann wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Sat, 2016-11-12 at 09:46 +0000, Richard Shann wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Sat, 2016-11-12 at 01:11 -0800, Donald J. Stewart wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > I've attached the file.
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > you have to compress the file before attaching it to the
> > > > > > > > > email.
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > I've used the list-moderator interface to allow this email
> > > > > > > > through
> > > > > > > > so
> > > > > > > > there should be no need to re-send it compressed on this
> > > 
> > > occasion.
> > > 
> > > > > > > The file has now arrived on the mailing list.
> > > > > > > I've tested out the .denemo file attached to it.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > The full score typesets with error messages in the LilyPond
> > > 
> > > window:
> > > 
> > > 
> ==========================================================================
> > > 
> > > > > > > ====== Typesetting ...Done/tmp/Denemo_UHBTQY/
> > > 
> > > denemoprintB.ly:
> > > > > 685:346:
> > > > > > > warning: unterminated hyphen; removing
> > > > > > > Bless -- ed __ are __ the poor __ in spi -- rit... Bless -- ed __
> > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > __
> > > > > > > the meek... __ Bless -- ed __ are they __ that mourn... Bless --
> > > > > > > ed
> > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > they __ that hun -- ger and thirst __ af -- ter jus -- tice..=2E
> > > > > > > __
> > > > > > > Bless -- ed, __ bless -- ed are __ the mer -- ci -- ful... __
> > > > > > > Bless --
> > > > > > > ed __ are __ the __ peace -- mak -- ers, __ the peace -- mak
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > -- ers. __  jus -- tice... __  __ af -- __ Bless-
> > > > > 
> > > > > > > /tmp/Denemo_UHBTQY/denemoprintB.ly:1081:21: warning:
> > > > > unterminated
> > > > > 
> > > > > > > decrescendo
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > >          f-\fermata
> > > > > > >          
> > > > > > >                     \decr \AutoEndMovementBarline
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > /tmp/Denemo_UHBTQY/denemoprintB.ly:81:79: warning:
> > > > > decrescendo too small
> > > > > 
> > > > > > >          f'' f'' \cr g'' g'' f'' f'' g'' g'' f'' f'' g'' g''<> 
> > > > > > >          \ff
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > bes''4:32
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > \decr~  \!\AutoBarline
> > > > > > > /tmp/Denemo_UHBTQY/denemoprintB.ly:690:23: warning: 
> cannot
> > > > > 
> > > > > resolve rest
> > > > > 
> > > > > > > collision: rest direction not set
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > >          \tempo 4=84
> > > > > > >          
> > > > > > >                       r1\AutoBarline
> > > > > > >        
> > > > > > >        ...
> > > 
> > > 
> ==========================================================================
> > > 
> > > > > > > ======
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > The first message is about your lyrics - I'm not an expert on
> > > 
> > > LilyPond
> > > 
> > > > > > > lyric syntax - you have doubled hyphens and doubled 
> underscores
> > > 
> > > -
> > > 
> > > > > should
> > > > > 
> > > > > > > these be doubled? Should not the hyphens be attached to the
> > > > > 
> > > > > previous
> > > > > 
> > > > > > > syllable (i.e. no space)?
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > The second message says you have a decr start with no decr 
> end
> > > > > 
> > > > > later.
> > > > > 
> > > > > > > The last message is for part writing, where you have more 
> than
> > > 
> > > one
> > > 
> > > > > rest
> > > > > 
> > > > > > > at one moment and have not specified which voice they are in, 
> or
> > > 
> > > if
> > > 
> > > > > they
> > > > > 
> > > > > > > are to be combined (see Staffs/Voices->Voices menu).
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > However, these are all just Warning messages, and so you 
> *do*
> > > 
> > > get a
> > > 
> > > > > > > typeset score.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Putting the cursor in the top staff in the Denemo Display and
> > > 
> > > clicking
> > > 
> > > > > > > Part in the Print View also typesets with warning, attached is 
> the
> > > 
> > > PDF
> > > 
> > > > > > > created by clicking the PDF button. The LilyPond window 
> shows
> > > 
> > > the
> > > 
> > > > > > > following warnings in the lower pane in this case:
> > > 
> ==========================================================================
> > > 
> > > > > > > ====== Typesetting ...Done/tmp/Denemo_UHBTQY/
> > > 
> > > denemoprintA.ly:
> > > > > 36:50:
> > > > > > > warning: crescendo too small
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > >          g'?2.-\tenuto \decr<>  \p d'4\glissando
> > > > > > >          
> > > > > > >                                                  \cr(
> > > > > > >                                                  \!\AutoBarline
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > /tmp/Denemo_UHBTQY/denemoprintA.ly:81:79: warning:
> > > > > decrescendo too small
> > > > > 
> > > > > > >          f'' f'' \cr g'' g'' f'' f'' g'' g'' f'' f'' g'' g''<> 
> > > > > > >          \ff
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > bes''4:32
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > \decr~  \!\AutoBarline
> > > > > 
> > > > > > > /tmp/Denemo_UHBTQY/denemoprintA.ly:163:77: warning:
> > > > > decrescendo too
> > > > > 
> > > > > > > small
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > >          bes'4-\tenuto<>  \f a'4-\tenuto aes'4-\tenuto<>  \mf
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > ges'4-\tenuto
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > \decr\AutoBarline
> > > > > 
> > > > > > > /tmp/Denemo_UHBTQY/denemoprintA.ly:189:139: warning:
> > > > > decrescendo too
> > > > > 
> > > > > > > small
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > >         <>  \f<> ^\markup \italic {"con sord." } cis''16 \cr dis''
> > > > > > >         e''
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > fis'' cis'' dis'' e'' fis'' cis'' dis'' e'' fis''<>  \ff gis''4:32
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > \decr~  \!\AutoBarli...
> > > 
> > > 
> ==========================================================================
> > > 
> > > > > > > ======
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > the cursor does indeed move to the first of these warnings at
> > > 
> > > Staff 1,
> > > 
> > > > > > > bar 15 on the last note. And indeed the crescendo between the
> > > 
> > > d'4
> > > 
> > > > > (which
> > > > > 
> > > > > > > is a d 1/4) note and the following  ees''8 (an e-flat 1/8th) note
> > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > rendered as a squashed up line. LilyPond is not clever enough 
> to
> > > 
> > > fix
> > > 
> > > > > > > this for you by giving extra space.
> > > > > > > Searching in the View->Command Center for "cres" I came to
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Command: Lengthen Hairpin
> > > > > > > Inserts a directive to lengthen the following cresc or dim
> > > > > > > hairpin.
> > > > > > > Location: ObjectMenu->NotesRests->Markings->Dynamics
> > > > > > > Internal Name: LengthenHairpin
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > which may help in this situation.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > I also put the cursor in the Soprano staff and clicked Part in 
> the
> > > > > > > Print
> > > > > > > View - this typeset without warning messages - as it involves
> > > > > > > those
> > > 
> > > __
> > > 
> > > > > > > and -- in the lyrics I guess they are all right - the "warning:
> > > > > > > unterminated hyphen; removing" message above must refer 
> to
> > > 
> > > some
> > > 
> > > > > other
> > > > > 
> > > > > > > verse.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > HTH
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Richard
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > Denemo-devel mailing list
> > > > > > > address@hidden
> > > > > > > https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/denemo-devel
>

SecondbinjQKQnC5vgy-TrumpetInC.pdf
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SecondbinjQKQnC5vgy-TrumpetInCNoHide.pdf
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