Re: [Eliot-dev] Catalan language file and dictionary

[Joan Montané]

Hi Olivier,

2009/6/14 Olivier Teuliere <address@hidden>:
> Hi Joan,
>
> [I re-added the eliot-dev ML in Cc:, forgotten in my first reply].
>
Ok.

> The ca.po file is now in the repository, and will be part of the next
> release. Thanks for your contribution!
>
Thanks to you for your work with Eliot.

> Concerning the dictionary, you are right that digraphs are not
> supported. What is supported, however, is the handling of any (single)
> unicode character. This means that with the current version of Eliot,
> you can already do much better than K, Q, W and Y. You could use for
> example the following substitutions:
> Ç-->Ç (no substitution needed!)
> L·L-->Ŀ (U+013F)
> NY-->Ñ (U+00D1)
> QU-->Q
Well, Ç and Q tiles are good.
Ñ tiles is a little wrong, because:
1.- Ñ char is only in spanish keyboards
2.- Usually Catalan speakers don't want to use Spanish things, so I
thing is better to use Y NY tile instead Ñ tile.

Ŀ char is a problem, because:
1.- It's only avaiable on some linux keyboards definition (it's not
avaiable on Windows keyboard)
2.- A high number of users doesn't know this char. This char is in
Unicode for historical reason and it's few used.
3.- This special char is marked as depreceated by Unicode.

> These are only suggestions, feel free to use more convenient ones. But
> you shouldn't choose too exotic characters, because they will be hard
> to input by the players (except with copy-paste)...
>
To facilitate input method, I choosed full ascii char: K,Q,W,Y I will
check other users but I think it's the best option (Maybe Ç remains Ç,
but I want to check other users).

> I won't save the current version of the dictionary in the repository,
> because I prefer to store the uncompressed word list rather than a
> binary file, even if .dawg files are offered for download on the
> website. Could you please send me a link to the word list you used?
>
Yes of course. I will send you tomorrow.

> I agree with your analysis concerning digraph (or multi-characters)
> support, but I need to know a bit more about Catalan Scrabble first:

Ok
> 1) Is it guaranteed that NY in a word is always played with one tile?
> Or could it mean "N tile followed by Y tile"? Same question for QU.

Yes, it do. There isn't Y tile on Catalan Scrabble distribution. Rules
avoid to play a N tiles and a blank (as Y tile) to form a NY.
About QU tile, yes it do again.
It's special by historical reasons. Original Mattel rules have Q
normal tile, but in all the clubs, tournaments, and championships,
it's played as QU tile. Again, it's not allowed to play a blank as Q,
followed by a U tile to form QU tiles.

> 2) How would players input "L·L"? It may not be easy to support
> various input methods (like 'L', '.', 'L' being equal to 'L', '·',
> 'L'), so I'd prefer to be sure each tile has only one "canonical"
> input method.

Aaaaah, It's the big question.
The "L·L" digraph has not a well input standard. :-(
The more correct is 'L','·','L' (high dot), and spellcheackers uses that.
Others used inputs are 'L','.','L' (normal dot) or 'L','-','L'
(hyphen) ara treated as incorrect but also are used. Some Linux users
also use 'Ŀ','L'. There is starting a study to reclaim a unique
Unicode char 'ĿL', but it's a long term project.
I think the best aproach, by now, is high dot: 'L','·','L', but the
result string is too wider, :-(

>
> Best regards,
> --
> Olivier
>
>> Then, Eliot uses this info to parse the user's input (L·L-->W) and
>> Eliot's output (W-->L·L).
>>
>> What do you think about?
>>
>> Joan Montané.
>>
>> 2009/6/4 Joan Montané <address@hidden>:
>>> Hi Olivier,
>>>
>>> I will remake and check an Eliot dictionary with digraphs (L·L, NY,
>>> QU). May be I've make some mistake.
>>>
>>> I have some requests, specially for duplicate mode. I will send them
>>> in two weeks. I want to do a good test and look the code (I'm not a
>>> programmer-guy, but I can "understand" code a little). I think Eliot
>>> could the best manager for Duplicate games.
>>>
>>> Thanks for your work and enjoy holidays! :-)
>>>
>>> Joan Montané
>>>
>>> 2009/6/4 Olivier Teuliere <address@hidden>:
>>>> ¡Hola Joan!
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 10:14 PM, Joan Montané <address@hidden> wrote:
>>>>> In [1], you can download a ca.po file with (almost) all the Eliot strings
>>>>> translated, and in [2] a Catalan dictionary file, based on a good
>>>>> enough train wordlist, not official, neither perfect, but the best
>>>>> publicy avaiable in Catalan. Please, add them to the trunk code,
>>>>> thanks
>>>>
>>>> Thanks, I will do it in about 2 weeks... when I am back from my
>>>> holidays in Spain :-)
>>>>
>>>>> There are at least three languages using digraphs on Scrabble:
>>>>> Catalan, Spanish, Welsh. So, I request support for digraphs tiles on
>>>>> Eliot project.
>>>>
>>>> Since several versions now, Eliot is supposed to support any set of
>>>> characters (up to 63 characters). I once tried to build a dictionary
>>>> with Polish words, and both the dawg creation and the display on the
>>>> interface were fine, so I see no reason why Catalan would not work.
>>>>
>>>> There is one condition though: the input files for the 'compdic'
>>>> program should be encoded in UTF-8. Was it the case when you tried?
>>>>
>>>> If there is really a bug, I will also solve it when I am back home.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your contribution!
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> --
>>>> Olivier
>