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Re: [Phpgroupware-users] Setting up local mail delivery

From: Chris Weiss
Subject: Re: [Phpgroupware-users] Setting up local mail delivery
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 09:15:31 -0500

On 6/13/05, James Mohr <address@hidden> wrote:
> > > > IIRC, for php mail() to deliver, you still need an MTA server process
> > > > running unless you suid the sendmail binary. (can you say "security
> > > > hole"?)  I'd bet your MTA server process will incur minimal overhead
> > > > to enable it's port 25.
> > >
> > > Actually, postfix is already enabled for local delivery by default and
> > > other applications have no problem sending email as they send it all
> > > locally, phpgw does have a problem. It seems that all that is necessary
> > > is to configured postfix to accept the "local" connection from phpgw.
> >
> > if postfix is on the same box as your mail server then it is "local",
> > unless you've firewalled it or added/removed some default setting from
> > postfix.
> In email terms, there is a difference between "local email delivery" and
> "sending via STMP to the local machine". Each uses a different MTA. I did not
> want to go through the work of setting of an SMTP MTA as the local MTA is
> already working.

postfix has many ways it can reviece mail into the MDA, "local" is not
one of them, smtp and lmtp (which I think you aren't using because
that listens on a port too) are the only built in ones, some external
ones are maildrop, uucp, ifmail, and bsmtp.  "local" is an MDA, as are
virtual, bounce, and relay.  The sendmail command is a queue injection
tool using postdrop, not an MTA. (though I can see how queue injection
could be argued as being an MTA, it technicaly isn't since it's
injecting and not transfering)

> > I think the issue is that you are over-estimating what it takes to run
> > SMTP, and imap/pop3 for that matter.  Delivering and serving email to
> > system users is blindingly simple on modern linux distros, even with a
> > learning curve I'd give it 30 minutes tops.  However, rewritting phpgw
> > to do something that only you want to do could take hours and a much
> > larger learning curve, and you only want to do it because you are
> > scared(?) of learning how to enable smtp.
> Hmmm. I looked through my posts and clouldn't find anything where I (or anyone
> else for that matter) suggested or asked the phpgw be rewritten. It was was
> simple question about how email is sent. It not an issue of learning postfix
> as I have already done it on other machines.

i'm not sure, I guess I didn't know what else your point was.  The
first couple posts basicaly said "you can't, use smtp" and you
responded with things like saying we should use mail().

> > I can understand wanting things your own way, especialy whan it seems
> > so simple.
> Sorry, not to be any more obnoxious than usual, but where the heck did you get
> that from ("wanting things your own way")??? So that I can avoid
> misunderstanding like this in the future, which of my posts led you to
> believe I wanted it "my way"?

because you don't want to enable smtp for reasons beyond my understanding.

> > The fact is that smtp is standard, calling a sendmail
> > binary, as php's mail() does, is not standard.
> <sarcasm>
> Is that "standard" in an RFC somewhere?
> </sarcasm>

rfc's 821 and 822  :P

> I manage several datacenters for online brokers, web shops, application
> hosting, etc and we a number of mechanisms that report things via email and
> they all use the local MTA ("local" in email terminology, not the "local
> machine"). 

how many of these things did you build from scratch?  I've built ISP's
from the ground up, web shops, interactive sites, enterprise
extranets, and no web apps I make use the sendmail binary.  You know
what happens when I rename the sendmail binary?  nothing.  doesnt
care.  I can take my apps from unix to windows to mac to a toaster, so
long as there is a web server, the proper cgi or scriping lang, and an
smtp somewhere on the network everything will work find with little or
no changes.

>All of the applications were written by other companies (HP, Dell,
> etc) and they all call the sendmail binary.

and the big guys always do it right?  how many times has CitiBank been
hacked now?

> (I know as we hade renamed it and they barfed on us). 
thank you, you proved my point.

>Granted, connecting to the SMTP port works regardless.
> Most data centers I know of have port 25 disabled except for the few machines
> that are directly involved in accepting email **from other machines**. Are
> you referring to opening sockets yourself as a de facto or a de jur standard?

local firewalls?  network firewalls?  

can you get a sendmail binary on windows without dealing with cygwin
that works just like on unix?  welcome to cross platform development.

> > Most dedicated web
> > servers don't even have a local mail server installed and using smtp
> > will work if the mail server is local or not.  It will even work if
> > the mail server is on Windows, Solaris, Commodore64, or a toaster.
> > It's standard, flexible, and not as hard to setup as you think.
> Excuse me. In which of my posts did I mention the word "hard" or what phrases
> did I use to give you the impression that I though it was "hard".  In my very
> first post I said "I don't (yet) want to go through the work of setting up
> either an imap or pop3 server." There was nothing about the difficulty about
> installing it.  Granted, I have probably used more time reply to emails than
> I would have configuring postfix, but that happens sometimes.

to me refering to something work you don't want to do implies that you
find it hard, or at least bothersome (which to me can make it feel
hard even if it isn't)

> > Join
> > the masses and setup SMTP :D
> My experience says that the "masses" of machines, particularly in a
> professional environment do not have SMTP running.

right, as I said above with "Most dedicated web servers don't even
have a local mail server installed", they have it on ONE designated
mail server or cluster of servers and use SMTP to connect to it.

> > (a hint:  in phpgw tell it that you are using pop3, you don't have to
> > have pop3 setup but if you leave as the default imap it will try to
> > save the "Sent Item" to your imap account.  with pop3 it won't bother
> > because pop3 doesn't have sent items or any other folders)
> Thanks for the tip. I will make sure I set it up as pop3.

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