Re: RMS: users request you perhaps program HURD: they fear the path the linux kernel is going.

[Svante Signell]

Hello,

below are incomplete answers to your questions and some links. Many facts are
supplied by Samuel Thibault, the main GNU/Hurd developer. Since he is very busy,
he does not want to reply directly due to lack of time to answer any follow-up
questions.

Thanks!

On Tue, 2019-11-12 at 10:44 +0200, Alexander Vdolainen wrote:
> Hi,
> IMO GNU Hurd is a good thing to have, btw at the moment Hurd architecture 
> isn't so good: 
>  - it's a microkernel, isn't it? if so, why mach still contains drivers ...

We're working on this, precisely. The most promising is usage of rump kernel
drivers, from NetBSD, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rump_kernel. Very soon
these drivers will be supported in Hurd.

> why not to use a 3rd microkernel generation ... etc ...

Why doing it? This has been done in the past, it's a lot of work, while
we can on the contrary shrink Mach instead.

>  - MIG ... it's an ugly thing

Frankly, like all RPC designs. Newer ones have a nice red package, but
in the end the issues will always be the same.

> as I understood GNU hurd development has stalled due to the different
> reasons, but one of them is architecture itself.

Not really, it's the fact that yes it's more complex to make
non-monolithic designs, and thus people prefer to go work on Linux, and
only cry when they happen to want to do containers.

Very soon now, Gnumach+Hurd will also have SMP support. Regarding 64-bit support
64bit userland is not planned for, but 64-bit kernelland has made a lot of
progress, see https://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/faq/64-bit.html.

> To change this a lot of work is required, but nobody wants to go deep with 
> that.
> 
> however, if we're going to speak about GNU system we're limited with a few 
> components:
>  - GNU userland - ok it exists
>  - GNU toolchain - yep it works
>  - GNU kernel/system services - ... nope
> I know linux kernel just works, but it's not a GNU project.

Debian GNU/Hurd has been available for a long time. Around 75% of all Debian
packages are available, see 

For more info see:
http://darnassus.sceen.net/~hurd-web/
https://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/index.html is outdated.
https://www.debian.org/ports/hurd/
https://wiki.debian.org/Debian_GNU/Hurd