Re: Coreboot vs Libreboot - GNU: Please use Coreboot without the blobs (compile time option).

[Alexandre François Garreau]

Oh my…

 

Okay I treat first technical issues:

 

Le mercredi 6 novembre 2019, 18:52:50 CET address@hidden a écrit :

> [Posting here because the technical reason Libreboot is now a bad option

> is because it doesn't work with newer systems,

 

Libreboot is a bootloader meant to replace BIOS (or UEFI), that is on systems which have BIOS or UEFI… That is intel systems. And nowadays intel systems are locked, impossible to update, and come with proprietary and security-threatening non-removable Intel ME (and AMT).

 

> and the Libreboot

> "maintainer"

 

There is no more libreboot maintainer since the founder wanted to take it out of GNU and then leaved after disagreeing with the other developers because of that.

 

> has seemingly no will to update the project, and no

> technical ability to work

> around the problems]

 

The problem is not technical but political, intel does shit:

 

https://libreboot.org/faq.html#intel

 

https://libreboot.org/faq.html#amd

 

Developers tried to remove as much they could, they couldn’t arrive to anything free-software that would just *boot*. So that with modern hardware you have to choose between freedom and being able to boot.

 

> Coreboot is the actual project, it can be compiled without binary

> blobs, and has an command line option to do so.

> Libre boot is Coreboot without the binary blobs.

 

Libreboot also contribute upstream to add reimplementation and reverse-engineering of binary blobs, even more especially when these are required in order to boot.

 

> Libre boot has not been updated in 3 years. […]

> Usually this would be fine for a program: at some point often

> a program is completed and needs fewer code updates (then one should

> focus on media updates and additions that use its capabilities),

 

It can be considered it is the case, for the specific point of intel and amd hardware. Unless AMD and Intel change politics for newer to-be-released hardware, that won’t change.

 

Progress is to be researched on other architectures.

 

Very well, x86 is not very esteemed anyway.

 

And ARM is taking over everything, and is better esteemed (though not as much as MIPS or Alpha).

 

> but

> this particular program must be updated to work with new hardware

> (new, ever more compromised hardware...)

 

No.

 

> The "maintainer" (again: here we have someone who is not a

> main-programmer of the Work, being effectivly credited with the Work,

> when the work on the Work consists simply of removing parts of the

> Work, or just setting different complile options)

 

No, the original founder did contribute upstream to coreboot. Libreboot is a distribution of coreboot that contributes to it. Coreboot people are simply not willing to remove proprietary binary blobs that just “work better”. Libreboot solves it the same way as Linux-libre to Linux (even more), gNewSense to Debian (even more), Trisquel to Ubuntu or Parabola to ArchLinux, LibreCMC to… forgot it. That’s very common and not a problem. And it almost always implies some additional philosophy policing work that is politically very important within free software. Otherwise we wouldn’t be supporting it.

 

I have some grief against Pure OS because it doesn’t add/remove that much, and have communication and marketing I dislike. Though (especially through librem 5 project) I heard it contributed to some upstream software projects (not Debian though).

 

> revile the

> Coreboot programers,

 

No. They’re doing good, important and useful job. But they’re not on our philosophical standards against proprietary software. That clearly underlines what I previously said about separation between technique and politics.

 

The rest is nonsense as you yourself saw both defense and attacks on RMS and their orders of magnitudes. Just count the mails, count people who expressed in each direction *and people not having expressed* (you can find maintainers on pages of each gnu package in /s and developers in VCS histories).

 

> RMS is an actual programmer, not merely a

> "maintainer" who /removes/ things: he built things from the ground up.

 

He also do that. GNU is a negative movement. We want for proprietary software to *disappear*. That’s his ideology, and ours too.

 

> "Maintainers" should not steal the glory from the actual originators of

> the Work. We see it happen here where "Maintainers" try to oust the

> Authors. They should know their place, or not have one at all (their

> position and role is more of one of plagirism than anything else)

 

So you’re proposing to throw out linux-libre, trisquel, parabola, librecmc, gnewsense, pureos, etc. pretty much most of FSF’s endorsed distributions and its kernel.

 

This is stupid.

 

It is also pretty complicated to remove non-free parts from Linux, so Linux-libre is essential. And the ability to remove non-free part of coreboot *directly comes* from active upstream hacking from *libreboot developers* (including leah).

 

> this

> "maintainer" has not been cancled,

 

Yes she has :/

 

> ...

> For these reasons I propose coreboot with the no-blobs option be used

> over "libreboot". It is free-software without the blobs; but even

> blobless the spyware in your processor is still there either way

> (another gift of America).

 

You will be widely ignored.

 

*Content warning*: from here there are answer to personal attacks (feel free to skim over and quit that mail from now)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

> in the past attacked

> the FSF and RMS for some emotional issue [she] was having.

 

That may be wrong, but now it’s over, and I’m glad we can forget and move on. Leah is great and I’m sad she doesn’t work on it anymore. Unfortunately Libreboot has not returned inside GNU project because of this governance issues trust break :/ (a first-time for GNU, and afaik only the second time a such problem arise after GnuTLS) I hope one day it’s okay though.

 

> All of you likely "respect" the Libre-Boot maintainer,

 

Unfortunately not necessarily :/ But I hope we all do from within GNU, because GNU shall be a place of kindness for the sake of better productivity.

 

> You have also infected his mind and forced him to reverse his previous

> 3 statements,

 

“infected” here is a pejorative statement for “convinced”/persuaded. And he was convinced, not persuaded, as he said it himself and he is to be trusted on such thing. He’s a pretty rational person.

 

> RMS: Why do you surround yourself with those who do nothing and do not

> respect you? There are many who do respect you and respect you even

> more for your statements which were benificial to men.

 

Because he’s reasonable and rational. He, like a bunch of us, borrow more attention to words rather than their authors, and to actions rather than words. You do the opposite.

 

> You could probably even have everything you might want in

> Russia or South America or Japan or South-East Asia etc.

 

South America is in America. And he’s a US citizen. Like most of people, he has tights to his country. You can’t deport people that easily. Even when a country gets shitty, people stay in it. And are not so prone as to throw baby with bath water like a foreigner might do. No country is purely monolithic (especially one as powerful, rich and big as US).

 

From now it begins looking more and more like transphobia (in the end it definitely is):

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

> The "maintainer" recently had his genitals sawn off.

> He posted pictures of it being done on [her] personal web page.

 

Now it can be seen you’re not speaking about any current maintainer of Libreboot but about its Founder while misgendering her all along: Leah Rowe.

 

Also you’re attacking her for stuff totally unrelated to GNU, on her personal page. Anybody can say anything outside of GNU. We’re welcoming *everybody*. That’s non-negociable and unconditional.

 

If that ever changed, you’d likely not able to state such things anymore. Isn’t it ironic?

 

> This is completely "Fine" and "good" according to Americans,

 

Europeans too. I have to say personally (I’m European, and she’s too). Oh and Asians, since she did that in Asia where people are more experienced about it… And many other people. So it’s already likely most of the world places.

 

> even though he is setting a True

> harmful example

 

Stop slandering. It is not good against RMS. It is no more good against Leah.

 

> 3) The libreboot "maintainer" has castrated Coreboot

> The same mental idea is used here. This may have cause the Libreboot

> maintainer to entertain the idea in realitly aswell. Like follows

> like. The brain makes objective connections between subjective matters.

 

WTF. How can you compare proprietary binary blobs to reproductive organs to be preserved? This is totally absurd and against free software philosophy!

 

We are to be glad she or anybody else removes that from coreboot. This is proprietary software. Proprietary software shouldn’t exist and ought to be removed. This is RMS’ statement, as well of GNU’s and FSF’s.

 

> Libre-boot brings shame to Free Software. Men do not want to have

> anything to do with a man who cuts his genetals off, and does no

> constructive work either. Libre-boot is very American.

 

Libreboot is british, initially (it even, in past time, got some interest by promoting brexit, a very unamerican thing, you know). And yes, men do, I know pretty much a bunch of those. But I guess to you we’re only “quiche eaters” and we’re not worth your attention because we prefer lisp to assembly xDDDD

 

Good luck with finishing your life in object code. Tell us when you achieved anything.

 

Meanwhile we’ve been built the equivalent of several OSes in lisp.

 

> [Notice: Libreboot author posting photos of his genitals being cut off

> is respected,

 

No, it is less known to the people not respecting it, because they don’t care both because few people have the same free-software philosophy standards as RMS or Leah, and because RMS is more known than libreboot. Though for the sake of consistence and free software, I’m pretty sure he would prefer the opposite.