Re: Proposal for an Emacs User Survey

[Dmitry Gutov]

On 16.10.2020 16:45, Marcel Ventosa wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Oct 2020 15:17:16 +0300
> Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru> wrote:
>
> > Do you think the "mockery" is entirely without merit?
>
> Yes, and I think mockery precludes understanding, particularly as we
> are dealing with a thoughtful man and a well developed and time tested
> philosophy, successfully put into practice against the odds.

Shutting our eyes to actual user behavior also precludes understanding.

> > ignore a project that has done a lot to popularize Emacs over the years.
>
> I fail to understand the narrative that pushes popularity over all else.

Strawman.

> What would be the use of making Emacs the most popular editor if it
> discarded the philosophy that brought it about?

It doesn't.

And picking on 2-3 "ideologically impure" packages (out of several 
thousands!) that are distributed on MELPA is counter-productive.

> > I think it's both insulting to its developers, and stinks of thought
> > police. Far from the idea of user freedom I hope to expect from GNU and FSF.
>
> You are conflating freedom, as in the freedom to do whatever you want,

I don't. But a certain freedom of thought, knowledge and discussion is 
necessary, as should be apparent to any educated individual.

> I don't understand how refusing to draw attention to a repository that
> recommends proprietary software turns anyone into the "thought police".

It's a *survey*! A survey is supposed to gather insight into what users 
do, and what they need. Not shape their behavior.

You can't be effective at affecting change anyway, if you don't know 
what's going on outside.

> Further up the list, I read RMS suggesting mentioning MELPA with a
> disclaimer and warning about its use.

That didn't seem to be the preferred option, in RMS's opinion.

> In fact, one of the most worrying aspects of this survey idea, as I see
> it, is the suggested use of non-free Javascript to implement it.

Didn't Philip show a prototype that didn't use JavaScript?

> > it is unfortunate how Emacs leadership does little to follow the
> > external, "unofficial" polls.
>
> What do you mean by this?

I don't recall any single change in Emacs' behavior that resulted from 
an external poll or survey.