Re: Woctave-another gui front end

[edmund ronald]

the analogy between the various open/free advocates and gurus who wish
to found a church is quite interesting :)
every day brings its little moment of surprise.
thanks Sergei!

Edmund

On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 1:29 AM, Sergei Steshenko <address@hidden> wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>> From: Francesco Potortì <address@hidden>
>> To: "address@hidden" <address@hidden>
>> Cc:
>> Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 12:55 AM
>> Subject: Re: Woctave-another gui front end
>>
>> Stephen Montgomery-Smith:
>>>>  And by the way, what is this difference between "open source"
>> and
>>>>  "free"?
>>
>> Sergei Steshenko:
>>> Restriction/strings attached.
>>
>> No, that's a wrong answer.
>>
>> What is "open source software" is defined by the Open Source
>> Initiative
>> (at <http://opensource.org/osd>), while what is "free software"
>> had been
>> defined some years earlier by the Free Software Foundation (at
>> <http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html>).
>>
>> Both definitions are meant to partition the field of software licenses
>> into those that comply with the definition and those that do not, and
>> provide a reason for creating such a partitioning.
>>
>> The partitioning is the same (i.e. software licences that are open
>> source are also free and viceversa), but the reasons are somewhat
>> specular.
>>
>> Those speaking about free software claim that freedom is the purpose,
>> and convenience is a nice but not necessary consequence; while those
>> speaking abut open source claim that convenience is the purpose, while
>> freedom is a nice but non ncesessary consequence.
>>
>> --
>> Francesco Potortì (ricercatore)        Voice:  +39.050.315.3058 (op.2111)
>> ISTI - Area della ricerca CNR          Mobile: +39.348.8283.107
>> via G. Moruzzi 1, I-56124 Pisa         Skype:  wnlabisti
>> (entrance 20, 1st floor, room C71)     Web:    http://fly.isti.cnr.it
>> _______________________________________________
>
>
> You are completely missing the point.
>
> Maybe you'll get the point reading quite an interesting book - " The Guru 
> Papers: Masks Of
> Authoritarian Powe"
> Joel Kramer and Diana
> Alstad - 
> http://www.amazon.com/The-Guru-Papers-Masks-Authoritarian/dp/1883319005 .
>
> For Russian speakers: http://evolkov.net/cults/books/Kramer.J.Alstad.D/ .
>
>
> Luckily, one can find excerpts from the original book online, e.g. 
> http://freedomofmind.com/Info/infoDet.php?id=250 :
>
> "
> If an authority not only expects to be obeyed without
> question, but either punishes or refuses to deal with those who
> do not, that authority is authoritarian.” (p.15)
> ".
>
> So, I am making very clear: I do _not_ accept FSF/GNU authority.
>
> I'd rather stick to: 
> http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quote/maimonides_quote_4cb7 :
>
> "
> Truth does not become more true by virtue of the fact
> that the entire world agrees with it,
> nor less so even if the whole world disagrees with it.
> ".
>
> And to: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/maimonides.html :
>
> "
> Do not consider it proof just because it is written
> in books, for a liar who will deceive with his tongue will not hesitate
> to do the same with his pen.
> ...
> You must accept the truth from whatever source it comes.
> ".
>
> Again, let me explain: it does _not_ matter to me how many Octave developers 
> call GPL free - according to my _biological_ pereception of freedom GPL is 
> the _least_ free of licenses called free FSF. It does _not_ matter to me what 
> RMS and/or EJR say on the matter.
>
>
> Further from http://freedomofmind.com/Info/infoDet.php?id=250 :
>
>
> "
> It is not at all unusual to be in an authoritarian relationship
> and not know it. In fact, knowing it can interfere with surrender.
> Any of the following are strong indications of belonging to an
> authoritarian group:
>
> 1. No deviation from the party line is allowed. Anyone who has
> thoughts or feelings contrary to the accepted perspective is made
> to feel wrong or bad for having them.
> ".
>
> Again, let me explain: I do _not_ follow GPL party line. Neither I did follow 
> the CPSU party line.
>
>
> http://freedomofmind.com/Info/infoDet.php?id=250 :
>
> "
> Traditional gurus teach what they were taught. Most gurus’
> training in dealing with disciples is through example –
> watching their own guru. They learn to recognize, reinforce, and
> reward surrender, and to negate non-surrender. Aside from the
> more tangible rewards, they reinforce devotion with attention
> and approval, and punish its lack by withdrawing them. Though
> some gurus say that doubts are healthy, they subtly punish them.
> Doubt is not the way to get into the inner circle. Believing surrender
> is essential for transmitting their teachings, some gurus could
> be aware they are manipulating people to surrender, but think
> they are doing so ‘for their own good.’ (If this were
> in fact true, it would mean that deep truths are only accessible
> via an authoritarian mode.) This can not only justify manipulation,
> but also justify dissembling in order to eliminate people’s
> doubts – all this being done in the name of fostering spiritual
> growth
> ".
>
> Again, let me explain: I do _not_ surrender to GPL indoctrination.
>
>
> http://freedomofmind.com/Info/infoDet.php?id=250 :
>
> "
> People whose power is based on the surrender of others
> develop a repertoire of techniques for deflecting and undermining
> anything that questions or challenges their status, behavior,
> or beliefs. They ridicule or try to confuse people who ask challenging
> questions
> ".
>
> Again, let me explain: I am sick and tired of the "repertoire of techniques 
> for deflecting and undermining
> anything that questions or challenges their status, behavior, or beliefs". 
> The _very_ typical behavior in this list is ideological indoctrination 
> instead of addressing _real_ problems.
>
>
> http://freedomofmind.com/Info/infoDet.php?id=250 :
>
> "
> Gurus likewise do many things to ensure that their disciples’
> prime emotional allegiance is toward them
> "
>
> - it's so boring to read GPL promotion here exactly as stated above.
>
>
> http://freedomofmind.com/Info/infoDet.php?id=250 :
>
> "
> Because of the nature of the relationship which demands total
> surrender, gurus do exactly the opposite. They cultivate and reward
> transference, for a parental type of authority is at the very
> core of the guru’s power over disciples.
>
> ...
>
> The person most at risk of being strangled by the images
> demanded by the role of the guru is the guru. This includes the
> great danger of emotional isolation. . . At the heart of the ultimate
> trap is building and becoming attached to the image of oneself
> as having arrived at a state where self-delusion is no longer
> possible. This is the most treacherous form of self-delusion and
> a veritable breeding ground of hypocrisy and deception. It creates
> a feedback-proof system where the guru always needs to be right
> and cannot be open to being shown wrong – which is where
> learning comes from.
> ".
>
>
> Having said all that I remind that I myself _did_ release some SW under GPL, 
> and I do _not_ regret it, and maybe I'll release more in the future.
>
> The reason is that I consider GPL to be a _protectionist_ license. It 
> _protects_ me as a developer nominally forbidding closed source ripoffs. That 
> is _exactly_ why I choose it.
>
> But I do _not_ try to advertise GPL as free - exactly because it is the 
> _most_ user limiting license of FSF approved ones, and presenting it as free 
> would contradict my _biological_ perception of freedom and thus would 
> constitute hypocrisy.
>
> And maybe I'll write more on what is _really_ happening in GPL ecosystem.
>
> ...
>
> Yet another _excellent_ example of guru tactics, authoritarianism and 
> cult:http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2012-11-29/ayn-rand-was-not-libertarian.
>
>
> Regards,
>   Sergei.
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