Re: Changing gui->AppKit, base->Foundation... etc...

[Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller]

Am 19.11.2010 um 11:51 schrieb Nicola Pero:

> 
>> It's not about buzzword or any b.s. like that.  What it's about is
>> making it easy for developers who don't have any experience with
>> GNUstep so that this project can get a much needed boost.
>> 
>> Do I have any "evidence" that we will get that.  No... I don't, but
>> I'm trying everything I can in order to make this project a little bit
>> more appealing to people other than the small group we have here.
>> I'm tired of GNUstep being, more or less, a "boutique" project for
>> people who "get it."   It's time to make it easier, really.
>> 
>> Conduct an experiment for yourself:  Pretend you're a novice user who
>> knows nothing about GNUstep and try to get things working relying on
>> the information you have at your disposal on the website.  Better yet,
>> get a friend who is a developer, but not familiar with GNUstep to set
>> it up.   That should illustrate to you just how daunting a task we
>> have set before our audience.
> 
> Yes, I agree with this.  The website is key.  I agree work on the website 
> would be extremely
> helpful and good, and that we should study and improve the path that a new 
> user or developer
> is expected to follow.  Make that experience easy and rewarding.  Get them to 
> some juicy,
> exciting bits quickly :-)
> 
> (By the way, we should all try to be very helpful and polite to new users or 
> developers when they
> ask questions or talk to us - that really makes a difference)
> 
> But I'm not sure changing the names of gnustep-base or gnustep-gui in 
> subversion would
> help much with it.  It seems to be a minor detail.  The Apple user/developer 
> looking for
> a free Cocoa clone and with a 5 minute attention timespan shouldn't even need 
> to
> know what gnustep-base or gnustep-gui are to get started; he should be able to
> get his GNUstep package (appropriate for his OS) that includes all that is 
> needed,
> and we want him to be up and running playing with Gorm (and Project Center ?)
> within minutes, bypassing everything else ... :-)
> 
> So maybe the root problem is not with the name of gnustep-base and 
> gnustep-gui, the root problem
> is that new users have to deal directly with gnustep-base and gnustep-gui 
> instead of being able to
> get all their GNUstep development tools ready for actions without being 
> bogged down into details ?

I agree with all the discussions and proposals how to improve the Web page and 
that it is more important
than the names (or changing them).

IMHO the root problem is that we discuss it approx. twice a year, but do not 
find a small (sub) team who
really takes care of it, grabs proposals and complaints, makes a draft for 
further discussion and finally makes it public.

But we just place proposals here in this list instead of touching the HTML 
code...

Now before someone asks the standard question: why are you not volunteering?

It is the same reason that I think we all have - it is not attractive enough, 
and distracts from the
more interesting code hacks. It is easier to make proposals than logging into 
the Wiki and editing the page...

I.e. we may need a subproject "GNUstep-web-presence" with bug tracker, 
milestones, release schedule etc.
With severals people contributing.

just 2 more cts...

Nikolaus