Re: Convert some files from outline-mode to org-mode

[Alan Mackenzie]

Hellow, Howard.

On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 23:27:39 -0400, Howard Melman wrote:
> Jean-Christophe Helary
> <address@hidden> writes:

> >> On Apr 27, 2020, at 23:36, Stefan Monnier <address@hidden> wrote:

> >> So, from what I gather here, we could satisfy everyone by using for the
> >> file format a very small subset of org-mode (basically the subset
> >> that is common with outline-mode), and for the major-mode itself
> >> a variant of org-mode that loads faster (e.g. a stripped down version
> >> of org-mode, or an org-mode that's been profiled&tweaked to load
> >> faster).

> > My reading is that org-mode users would just appreciate if
> > outline-mode had "non-nonsense" navigation similar to org-mode.

> FWIW, I've had this in my init for several years now. I'm
> not an org-mode user, though I've tried a few times. I can
> never remember the outline-mode keybindings and found  that
> org-mode's C-TAB and S-TAB alone were huge wins and just
> worked in outline-minor-mode.  This my solution to code
> folding and I use it in other modes like markdown.  Adding
> org-cycle and org-global-cycle to outline mode, or some
> equivalent I think would be a huge usability win.

> ;; I can never remember the outline keybindings,
> ;; grabbing C-tab and S-Tab from org-mode is genius
> ;; Also make the outline move commands memorable (borrowing from org)
> (with-eval-after-load "outline"
>   (define-key outline-minor-mode-map (kbd "C-<tab>") 'org-cycle)
>   (define-key outline-minor-mode-map (kbd "S-<tab>") 'org-global-cycle)
>   (define-key outline-minor-mode-map (kbd "M-<left>") 'outline-demote)
>   (define-key outline-minor-mode-map (kbd "M-<right>") 'outline-promote)
>   (define-key outline-minor-mode-map (kbd "M-<up>") 'outline-move-subtree-up)
>   (define-key outline-minor-mode-map (kbd "M-<down>") 
> 'outline-move-subtree-down)
> )

I disagree that these bindings are suitable for general use.

For a start, most of them only exist in GUI frames, not TTYs.  M-<left>,
etc. certainly don't (unless the keyboard has been specially enhanced,
as mine has).

Also, all these keys are "repeatable", i.e. you can let them run on
auto-repeat.  Such keys are scarce and valuable, and shouldn't be
"squandered" on commands that don't need them.  I suggest that the likes
of outline-demote don't need such bindings.

Also[2], the arrow keys, with modifiers, are highly likely to be in use
by many users for things connected with movement, and defining them like
this in outline-mode will inconvenience all of them.  For example, I've
got M-<up> and M-<down> bound to commands to scroll the other window a
single line.  I don't want to lose these, even in outline-mode.

> -- 

> Howard

-- 
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).