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Differences between mail-mode and message-mode (was: message-mode is now
From: |
Stephen J. Turnbull |
Subject: |
Differences between mail-mode and message-mode (was: message-mode is now default?) |
Date: |
Wed, 22 Jul 2009 16:35:18 +0900 |
Reiner Steib writes:
> Obviously the key bindings cannot be resolved without a change for
> either mail-mode or message-mode users. Maybe set the bindings
> depending on some compatibility variable?
How about the presence of Newsgroups?
> > . In mail-mode C-c C-f C-f moves to FCC; in message-mode C-c C-f C-f
> > moves to Followup-To, and C-c C-f C-w moves to FCC.
Followup-To is rarely useful in a mail message.
> > . In mail-mode C-c C-f C-a moves to Mail-Reply-To; in message-mode
> > C-c C-f C-a runs the command
> > `message-generate-unsubscribed-mail-followup-to' and there doesn't
> > seem to be a command to move to Mail-Reply-To.
There is no Mail-Reply-To header in the mail standards AFAIK.
> > . In mail-mode C-c C-f C-l moves to Mail-Followup-To; in message-mode
> > C-c C-f C-m moves to Mail-Followup-To and C-c C-f C-l is undefined
There is no Mail-Followup-To header in the mail standards AFAIK,
although there is a plausible argument that it is useful for mailing
lists.
> > . In mail-mode C-c C-t moves to message text; in message-mode this is
> > on C-c C-b, while C-c C-t runs `message-insert-to'.
> >
> > . In mail-mode C-c C-v runs `mail-sent-via'; in message-mode it runs
> > `message-delete-not-region'.
>
> What is "Sent-Via" about? Neither Google nor grepping through the
> RFCs gave me any useful result. [1]
>
> > . mail-mode runs `text-mode-hook' and `mail-mode-hook'; message-mode
> > says it runs `message-mode-hook' "in addition to any hooks its
> > parent mode `text-mode' might have run" -- it isn't clear to me if
> > these two are compatible wrt what text-mode does.
>
> This text is from `derived-mode-make-docstring'. message-mode is
> derived from text-mode.
>
> > . message-mode overrides the following global key bindings:
> >
> > - C-a runs `message-beginning-of-line'
>
> This is somewhat similar to C-a in the minibuffer. If you want to
> move beyond the mail header (e.g. "Subject: "), just press C-a again.
>
> > - TAB runs `message-tab'
>
> `message-tab' expand partially typed headers,
> cf. `message-completion-alist'.
>
> > - M-; runs `comment-region'
>
> AFAICS, in mail-mode, `M-;' runs `comment-dwim', which first asks for
> a comment syntax since none is defined.
>
> > . message-mode's default value of `message-generate-new-buffers'
> > seems to generate buffer names in a way that is different from what
> > mail-mode does.
>
> AFAICS, if I do `M-x message-mail RET', I get also get a "*mail*"
> buffer.
>
> > . message-mode's default value of `message-fill-column' overrides the
> > global value of `fill-column'.
>
> I used the recommendation from the relevant RFCs or GNKSA docs, IIRC.
> Unlike `fill-column' which affects the user (and his co-workers, ...),
> the fill column in mails (and news) should try to make sense for the
> recipients.
>
> > . mail-mode uses `mail-setup-hook'; message-mode uses
> > `message-setup-hook'.
>
> On Sat, Jul 18 2009, Miles Bader wrote:
> | One issue, of course is hook names; would it work to simply have
> | message-mode use the mail-mode hooks directly, and use variable-aliasing
> | to accommodate people that use the message-foo-hook names?
>
> Miles, is `defvaralias' what you have in mind?
>
> @@ -905,12 +923,13 @@
> (defcustom message-setup-hook nil
> "Normal hook, run each time a new outgoing message is initialized.
> The function `message-setup' runs this hook."
> [...]
> +(defvaralias 'mail-setup-hook 'message-setup-hook)
> [...]
>
> > . mail-mode uses `mail-yank-hooks'; message-mode doesn't appear to
> > have such a facility.
>
> ,----
> | ;; FIXME make it really obsolete.
> | (defvar mail-yank-hooks nil
> | "Obsolete hook for modifying a citation just inserted in the mail buffer.
> | Each hook function can find the citation between (point) and (mark t).
> | And each hook function should leave point and mark around the citation
> | text as modified.
> |
> | This is a normal hook, misnamed for historical reasons.
> | It is semi-obsolete and mail agents should no longer use it.")
> `----
>
> Should we care about it if is obsolete?
>
> > . message-mode's default value of `message-citation-line-format'
> > seems to produce different results compared to what `r' in Rmail
> > produces.
>
> AFAICS, `r' doesn't cite at all and produce not citation line (neither
> does `C-c C-y' (`mail-yank-original').
>
> > . message-mode's default values of `message-yank-cited-prefix' and
> > `message-yank-empty-prefix' are different from the results produced
> > by the default value of `mail-yank-prefix', and the names of the
> > options are also different.
>
> You mean the indentation? I think message mode's default are much
> better.
>
> > . message-mode's default value of `message-signature' is different
> > from mail-mode's `mail-signature',
>
> I think using ~/.signature by default is reasonable.
>
> > and the names of the options are different.
>
> See above -> Alias?
>
> > . mail-mode uses `mail-signature-file'; message-mode uses
> > `message-signature-file'.
>
> See above -> Alias?
>
> > . mail-mode uses `mail-default-directory' for auto-saving mail
> > buffers; message-mode uses `message-auto-save-directory',
>
> See above -> Alias?
>
> > and the default values are also different.
>
> message-mode tries to write all it's files under ~/Mail . Many users
> like to sync their mail stuff between different computers.
> message-mode's default makes this easier.
>
> > . mail-mode uses `mail-mode-syntax-table'; message-mode uses
> > `message-mode-syntax-table. The default values are also
> > different.
>
> I don't know why message mode additionally contains `>' and `<'.
> message-mode also copies `text-mode-syntax-table'.
>
> > . mail-mode uses `mail-send-hook'; message-mode uses
> > `message-send-mail-hook' and `message-send-hook'.
>
> See above -> Alias?
>
> > . mail-mode's `mail-bury' tries to show the Rmail buffer if
> > `mail-bury-selects-summary' is non-nil. message-mode's
> > `message-bury' doesn't seem to have a comparable feature. (This is
> > important when reading mail on a text terminal.)
>
> Probably we should call code like `mail-bury' to `message-bury' if
> `rmail-summary-buffer' is non-nil.
>
> > . message-mode doesn't seem to have an equivalent of `mail-use-dsn'.
>
> We could add the `mail-use-dsn' code to `message-send-mail-with-sendmail'.
>
> Bye, Reiner.
>
> [1] http://www.google.com/search?q=%2B"Sent-Via"+mail+header+rfc
>
> $ dpkg -l 'doc-rfc-*'
> [...]
> ii doc-rfc-0001-0999 20030621-1 Other RFCs
> ii doc-rfc-1000-1999 20030621-1 Other RFCs
> ii doc-rfc-2000-2999 20030621-1 Other RFCs
> ii doc-rfc-3000-3999 20030621-1 Other RFCs
> ii doc-rfc-experimental 20030621-1 Experimental RFCs
> ii doc-rfc-fyi-bcp 20030621-1 FYI and BCP RFCs
> ii doc-rfc-misc 20030621-1 Miscellaneous RFCs
> ii doc-rfc-old-std 20030621-1 Old Standard RFCs
> ii doc-rfc-std 20030621-1 Standard RFCs
> ii doc-rfc-std-proposed 20030621-1 Proposed Standard
> RFCs
>
> /usr/share/doc/RFC$ zgrep -ie Sent-Via */*.txt.gz
> /usr/share/doc/RFC$
> --
> ,,,
> (o o)
> ---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- | PGP key available | http://rsteib.home.pages.de/
>
- Re: message-mode is now default?, (continued)
- Re: message-mode is now default?, Richard Stallman, 2009/07/17
- Re: message-mode is now default?, Miles Bader, 2009/07/17
- Re: message-mode is now default?, Bastien, 2009/07/18
- Re: message-mode is now default?, Byung-Hee HWANG, 2009/07/18
- Re: message-mode is now default?, Eli Zaretskii, 2009/07/18
- Differences between mail-mode and message-mode (was: message-mode is now default?), Reiner Steib, 2009/07/19
- Re: Differences between mail-mode and message-mode, Sven Joachim, 2009/07/19
- Re: Differences between mail-mode and message-mode, Eli Zaretskii, 2009/07/19
- Re: Differences between mail-mode and message-mode, Eli Zaretskii, 2009/07/19
- Differences between mail-mode and message-mode (was: message-mode is now default?),
Stephen J. Turnbull <=
- Re: Differences between mail-mode and message-mode, Reiner Steib, 2009/07/22
- Re: Differences between mail-mode and message-mode, Stephen J. Turnbull, 2009/07/22
- Re: Differences between mail-mode and message-mode, Miles Bader, 2009/07/23
- Re: message-mode is now default?, Stefan Monnier, 2009/07/18
- Re: message-mode is now default?, Eli Zaretskii, 2009/07/18
- Re: message-mode is now default?, Stephen J. Turnbull, 2009/07/18
- Re: message-mode is now default?, David Kastrup, 2009/07/18
- Re: message-mode is now default?, Lennart Borgman, 2009/07/18
- Re: message-mode is now default?, Stephen J. Turnbull, 2009/07/18
- Re: message-mode is now default?, Eli Zaretskii, 2009/07/18