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Re: [Openexr-devel] Established deep data file extension?


From: Jeff Clifford
Subject: Re: [Openexr-devel] Established deep data file extension?
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 18:45:15 +0100
User-agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:10.0.5) Gecko/20120607 Thunderbird/10.0.5

Hi,

Yep - I'd echo what Peter says below.

The idea of the extension for us is purely to allow people working to see if there is deep data or not i.e. .dxr/.zxr would indicate that there is some deep data in the image.  However any extension should indeed be an optional alternative for those who don't have the same pipeline requirements (as it is with .sxr/.mxr).

One of our concerns for us is that by just using .exr for all types is that people can't quickly see if a particular shot is using our deep pipeline or not.  We're also not keen on the overhead of opening and header checking to decide whether deep data is within or not when there are a huge number of files.  However, I understand people's argument how in principle just .exr should be used as it supports all the different types of data within.

Bizarrely, this reminds me of the first meeting about OpenEXR at Siggraph (2002/3? - Apologies Florian I can't remember exactly) where one of the issues debated was the fact that .tif could be used to store such HDR data instead of a new file format/extension.  One of the key arguments against that was that the problem with .tif files is that you don't know what type of image data they actually contain - and now it looks we may be coming full circle!?

For us here we do want to use a different file extension to distinguish OpenEXR files that contain deep data for pipeline reasons and like Blochi said in his post this is the opportunity to do it - it will be harder to do it at a later date.  Maybe the Open Source VFX BoF meeting at Siggraph can be used to come to some consensus! - not sure if the beer will help or not ;-)

Thanks,

Jeff.

On 19/07/12 07:51, Peter Hillman wrote:
Not surprisingly, I agree with Richard!

Some users will want to use a different extension to indicate the file should be treated as deep.
For example, regular images called .exrs load into photoshop when clicked and deep images load into exrdisplay when clicked. Or, more pertinently for us, Nuke creates DeepRead nodes or Read nodes as appropriate from a single picker.

If there's no recommended extension, or a recommendation saying "you must call all your files .exrs", those folks will invent their own regardless, and vendors will be asked to implement a whole slew of extensions for different clients.

There's little need to have different extensions for mono and stereo, since code that can handle deep should be stereo aware from the beginning, and users would use the same tool for both mono and stereo. Information about mono or stereo should be in the filename as an indication to the user as to what to do (e.g. prefix the name with L, R or S); the extension should be used as an indication to the software as to what to do.

That said, it might still be worth having an agreed standard for extensions which distinguish stereo from mono, for people who really need it, so we limit the number of extensions there too.

I'm not suggesting we should specify that all deep exrs should always have some other extension, just that we specify a single one as an optional alternative, and suggest vendors support reading and writing deep exrs which have either .exr or the agreed other extension.

Personally, I'm not too fond of the idea of "dxr" or "dexr" because it isn't distinctive enough from "exr" in verbal communication.
Try saying this quickly  (ideally in a dark and crowded meeting room with important clients present for true authenticity):
"Have you rendered the dxr or the exr?"
Now try this:
"Have you rendered the odz or the exr?"





On 19/07/12 10:39, Richard Addison-Wood wrote:
As I understand the impetus for having recommendations for the file name extensions, I am thinking that it might make sense to make the following suggestions:

If, within your pipeline, you wish to use the file name extension of an OpenEXR image file to indicate that it has deep data, you may wish to consider using .dexr (for mono with deep data), .dsxr (for stereo with deep data), or .dmxr (for other multi-channel with deep data).

Alternatively, if you only want to distinguish between deep and non-deep, consider using .dexr when there is any deep data.

If, within your pipeline, you wish to use other means for distinguishing the form of the data in an OpenEXR image file, consider using .exr across the board.

On 07/19/12 07:35, Jonathan Litt wrote:
If an extension were going to be recommended along the lines of "sxr", there would also need to be some guidance as to when to use the extension at all. Given the alembic-like nature of 2.0 format files, does a deep extension mean there is exactly one deep image, or no non-deep images, or that the data is "primarily" deep data? Should stereo deep images be .dsxr? What should an application reading a 2.0 file expect differently if the file has a deep extension? So now there will be three extensions for the same file format that all just serve as hints, but that make no difference to reader programs? Of course not all readers will be able to process deep data, but they still need to be able to handle the fact that they could get a .exr file containing deep images that they need to ignore. I like .sxr, but it works because it has a much more narrow definition of what is contained in the file.

I say welcome to the new world of 2.0 where .exr might mean anything, and put whatever info you want about the contents into the file name or directory name. :) Soon enough (if not already at some places) most data except at the very end of the pipe is going to be deep anyway, so if a new extension is used then practically nothing will be called .exr, which seems like it kind of defeats the purpose.

-Jonathan



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