Re: trillSpan question:

[Kenneth Wolcott]

Hi Kira;

  No problem! I do very much appreciate comments regarding the
performance aspects of the music I try to engrave.

  I think I will write my own trill function for midi (not in
Scheme/Guile :-) but in Perl) which will generate alternating 32nd
notes or something like that which I can just dump into a Lilypond
macro specified for midi.  Then I suppose I could do the same thing
for a mordent, a turn, etc.

Thanks,
Ken

On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 5:36 PM Kira Garvie <kgarvie@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> 😂 Sorry if I went overboard! I think you are probably asking too much from 
> midi - the nuance won't be there. Have you considered consulting a different 
> arrangement of the piece, and seeing what sort of trill is notated there? 
> That specific notation that you used probably wasn't original to the 
> piece/timeperiod, it would have been much more improvisatory . (And please 
> tell me if this is way more detail than you want - I sometimes have nothing 
> better to do than overthink articulation!)
>
> On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 8:27 PM Kenneth Wolcott <kennethwolcott@gmail.com> 
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Kira;
>>
>>   Thank you for your elaboration on the performance aspects of the trill.
>>
>>   I implemented the trill span; it was not intuitive to me to end the
>> trill span on the following note, but it seems to work.
>>
>>   I implemented articulate.ly on the piece and the trill sounds
>> ***AWFUL*** It sounds like someone knocked over the Piano!
>>
>>   I don't think the 8notes.com's Piano arrangement of the "Prince of
>> Denmark's March" (or "Trumpet Voluntary"), composed by Jeremiah
>> Clarke, should sound so terrible with articulate.ly implemented, but I
>> guess I'm expecting too much from midi.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Ken Wolcott
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 5:07 PM Kira Garvie <kgarvie@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > I can't speak to the Lilypond notation, but only to the actual score 
>> > notation. When is this piece of music from? Different composers used 
>> > various trill markings to mean different things, but the 16th notes, 
>> > although they are notated normally, are probably part of the ornament. 
>> > There isnt really a set "duration" for a trill, so no guarantee just "tr" 
>> > would be an exact quarter note - there can be as much variation in how 
>> > someone performs a trill as any other musical indication. (ie start the 
>> > attack slow, almost a full 8th note duration, and speed up through to slow 
>> > back down for the termination, or a quick sharp attack going rapidly 
>> > through to the termination, or a gentle ornament that ends on the main 
>> > note and waits to terminate). To me at first glance, the plain "tr" 
>> > indicates to trill for the full value not because of itself, but because 
>> > of that little termination afterwards. The wavy line after it just makes 
>> > it extra clear what you are supposed to do. These would all be impacted by 
>> > tempo, composer, country, etc... performance practice of ornamentation is 
>> > just as ridiculously fussy and messy as anything else in music!
>> >
>> > On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 7:16 PM Kenneth Wolcott <kennethwolcott@gmail.com> 
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> So, it appears that \stopTrillSpan being placed on the following note
>> >> does not include the following note in the trill; I guess that  was
>> >> not obvious to me.
>> >>
>> >> The third question is that the trill does not appear in the midi
>> >> output, but articulation.ly would implement it?
>> >>
>> >> Thanks again,
>> >> Ken Wolcott
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 4:03 PM Kenneth Wolcott
>> >> <kennethwolcott@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Hi;
>> >> >
>> >> >   I have trouble understanding how to implement the \startTrillSpan
>> >> > and \stopTrillSpan.
>> >> >
>> >> >   I have two screenshots.
>> >> >
>> >> >   The first is an obvious \trill, no span needed.
>> >> >
>> >> >   The second requires the span, but I don't know how to place the
>> >> > \stopTrillSpan.
>> >> >
>> >> >   I see the trill section in the Notation Reference.  It does not help
>> >> > me understand how to place the \stopTrillSPan correctly.  I could
>> >> > place the \stopTrillSpan after the following note, but that certainly
>> >> > would be correct, right?
>> >> >
>> >> >   Another related question: what is the difference in the actual
>> >> > performance of the two types?
>> >> >
>> >> >   This is partially explained by Wikipedia:
>> >> >
>> >> > "A rapid alternation between the specified note and the next higher
>> >> > note (determined by key signature) within its duration, also called a
>> >> > "shake". When followed by a wavy horizontal line, this symbol
>> >> > indicates an extended, or running, trill. In music up to the time of
>> >> > Haydn or Mozart the trill begins on the upper auxiliary note"
>> >> >
>> >> > So does this mean that a dotted-quarter note trill will only be
>> >> > "trilled" for a quarter note duration and will the spanner indicate
>> >> > the full dotted quarter duration?
>> >> >
>> >> > Thanks,
>> >> > Ken Wolcott
>> >>