Re: Attempted spec for low-C bass clarinet diagrams

[Wim van Dommelen]

On 8 Feb 2013, at 13:55 , Joseph Rushton Wakeling wrote:

> http://www.circb.info/sites/default/files/La%20prima%20musica%20per%20clarinetto%20basso_0.pdf
Thanks!

> I see, so it's a little-finger d for both lh and rh?
Yes.

> Again, so Selmer has only 3 thumb keys, it's just the notes  
> delivered are different?
Right! (thumbs top to bottom):
        Buffet: low-d, low-cis, low-c
        Selmer: low-ees, low-cis, low-c.

> > Could we make it something like this: default that key is a low-ees  
> > (Selmer),
> > have an option: \override #'(thumb-ees = thumb-d) for the Buffet.  
> > I'm not
> > completly sure this can be done in a nice way. We could then just  
> > describe this
> > in general in the documentation without mentioning the brand(s)?
> >
> > >    Pictorially, the thumb keys would reflect the Buffet layout.
> > Yes, pictorial the Buffet low d and the Selmer low ees (dis!) are  
> > the same.
> > Actually, in the end this is the only key which differs between  
> > these models.
> > One diagram to fit them both is really preferable.
>
> Actually, I think we have a simpler situation here, if the 3 thumb  
> keys are identical in layout, just different in outcome.
OK.

> So, I would suggest low-c bass clarinet allows thumb-ees, thumb-d,  
> thumb-cis, thumb-c.  In pictorial mode, thumb-d and thumb-ees  
> correspond to the same key. In key-name mode, they show up as D and  
> Eb respectively.
>
> We then add a warning in the docs about this.
OK for me.

> > Agreed, but we must decide on where to put the rh side keys, e.g.  
> > above that
> > line, note that the naming might again be confusing (the current  
> > side-key "four"
> > is also an "Eb" or a "Dis" but one octave higher).
>
> I was not proposing to change current behaviour/notation for the  
> moment (one thing at a time, and all that).  However, since it's  
> worth addressing, for all clarinets, I would call these keys tr-ees,  
> tr-fis, tr-bes, tr-b, and in keyname mode I would notate them:
>
>     o o     o o       o o       o o
>       o       o         o         o
>    Eb o    F# o    Bbtr o    Bntr o
>       -       -         -         -
>       o       o         o         o
>       o       o         o         o
>       o       o         o         o
>
> Where the n in "Bntr" should be replaced with a natural sign and  
> "tr" is just the letters "tr" (short for "trill").
There is a possibility in some of the stencils to add a # or b, or  
nothing, but not a neutral sign. In the current stencil for these keys  
only text is allowed because it takes a different path through the  
code. I'm trying to get that right but I stumble somewhere.

> > What irritates me in the current model is the "h" key (in the  
> > central column).
> > That is something avaiable in bass clarinets (and similar in oboe),  
> > but really
> > not in the regular soprano clarinet and there it also shows up,  
> > that should also
> > be an extension for the bass clarinet only and not by default in  
> > the clarinet
> > stencil. I would also prefer of it showing up differently
>
> I think that "hole" is one thing that should show up _only_ when  
> it's requested.  You don't lose anything by not showing it on the  
> diagram when it's not specifically being pressed.
Mmmh, but the correct use of it is vital. See e.g. Sparnaay pages 57  
and 58. By looking back to these pages I noticed he writes the usage  
of the hole with a cross in circle "one". Henri Bok does the same. I  
like the graphical representation along the line we currently have  
because it is much easier when using it to play or practise something,  
but it is also arguable that we are going to forget the "h" completly  
and have a "oneX" option for the central column hole "one" producing a  
circle with a cross? Then we are also in line with the usage in the  
contemporary literature. Or better: let's do this in "numerical" mode  
(see below).

> That should simplify matters with respect to bass vs. soprano  
> clarinet.
Another good reason.

Sparnaay also use two extra symbols (a small arrow up and a small  
arrow down) for indicating if this combination is too high or too low  
and some comments, that can easily be created outside of the woodwind  
stencils by regular markups.

And: both Sparnaay and Bok just use numbers for the keys, not  
mnemonical descriptions, we could think about replacing the  
(graphical . #f) setting with a choice:
        \override #'(diagram-mode . graphical)          %(the default)
        \override #'(diagram-mode . keyname)
        \override #'(diagram-mode . numerical)


Regards,
Wim.