Re: In regards to defining GNUstep and Window Maker

[Alex Perez]

Adam Fedor wrote:
> On Sep 13, 2004, at 5:11 PM, Alex Perez wrote:
>
> > I revised it slightly. If you've got any more constructive criticism
> > please send it my way and I will react appropriately.
> >
> > http://wiki.gnustep.org/index.php/GNUstepIsNotWM
>
>
> I think it's still derisive. I think it is good to be more clear about 
> what GNUstep is and is not. In particular, we should probably revamp the 
> aboutGNUstep.html page to make the description of GNUstep more clear 
> (see for instance the FAQ entry 
> http://www.gnustep.org/information/userfaq_1.html#SEC9 (and note the 
> part about WIndowMaker as well)).
Please specificy what, exactly, you think is derisive about it. That 
goes for all of you, for that matter.
> However, I don't think we need to put every misunderstanding about 
> GNUstep on the front page. It makes the differences look overly 
> important, and it's not accurate as well.  Before we go changing policy 
> (e.g. what is the offical GNUstep window manager) we should discuss 
> among ourselves what any new policy should be.
It was put there for a good reason, not because anyone intended to start 
some jihad over whether or not WindowMaker was the official GNUstep 
window manager. The reality is that many, many people (quite possibly 
even most) do not consider WindowMaker to be the canonical GNUstep 
window manager.

Furthermore, I think most of the people who are reading are seriously 
lacking some perspective. If you watched constant trickle of newbies who 
come into #GNUstep who think WindowMaker *IS* GNUstep, you would have 
very different views on this matter.

So, I have a few questions:
(1) Why should WindowMaker, a completely non-gnustep-using product, use 
our logo? This has caused the most amount of confusion, IMHO, and it 
needs to stop. It needed to stop a long time ago. I don't care how many 
people recognize the GNUstep logo if they think it's the WindowMaker 
logo, or if they think WindowMaker is GNUstep or GNUstep is WindowMaker.
(2) Does GNUstep still use libwraster? AFAIK it does not, and so whoever 
it was from the WindowMaker camp that said it did is mistaken (AFAIK 
GNUstep-GUI stopped using wraster many, many months ago, but I'm sure 
nobody in WindowMaker land knew this since there aren't exactly open 
lines of communication between us.
(3) When was WindowMaker made the official GNUstep Window Manager? I 
presume this was a long time ago. Can anyone find references to actual 
e-mails in the actual archives, so newer folk can read the thread and 
get up to speed?
(4) Assuming, for the moment, that WindowMaker *IS* the "official" 
GNUstep window manager, what does that actually mean? Honestly, I think 
it ought to be the *recommended* GNUstep Window Manager, but not the 
"official" one. In my opinion, an "Official" GNUstep window manager 
should be using GNUstep, not a bunch of C libs that were written to 
mimic gnustep because the then-wm-devs saw GNUstep as not stable enough 
for use. Having an official GNUstep window manager implies that GNUstep 
does not work well with other window managers, which is now false 
(although it was likely true "back in the day"). It's time to move foreward.

Keep in mind that I am a faithful WindowMaker (WM2) user, even though 
it's got its' fair share of problems (NETWM being the biggest).