Re: [GNU-linux-libre] [gnu.org #1712352] freenix endorsed ?

[Jean Louis]

Dear Ivan,

Thank you. I understand "Zaigralin" like one who started playing,
speaking some Slavic languages too. Am I right?

* Ivan Zaigralin <melikamp@melikamp.com> [2021-04-07 02:54]:
> Dear Jean Louis,
> 
> We have been waiting for FSF to do something, anything, for years now.
> If you want to "rush", please let them know.

Tell me to which person did you speak to?

By which communication line did you ask?

> > What I don't understand is the mentioning of these packages which are
> > non-free:
> > https://freenix.net/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=slackware_14.0
> 
> These are non-free packages which we've purged from the Slackware
> upstream in order to create Freenix. We are fully committed to
> documenting every step of our work.

Ivan, that what you say here is not described on that page. I would
like to enter proposal on the page, but I cannot see how to subscribe
on Wiki if at all possible.

Again, you better communicate on the page with something like: "This
is the list of proprietary and FSDG non-conformant packages we
excluded from Slackware". But what you write exactly there is up to
you. I just say, page is not communicating enough.

> > What is very hard to find on that website is:
> >
> > - Packages, package list or search of packages, as that is starting
> >   point to verify if there are some considered non-free or
> >   non-compliant to FSF Free Distribution Guidelines
> 
> No, it's not very hard to find. The entire distribution is linked from
> the Free Repository article:
> 
> https://freenix.net/fxp/

Well you say it is not hard to find. Then you offered me hyperlink
which I could not find myself. Please understand it from users'
viewpoint. You know it, and I am not you, I cannot find it. I do know
how to browse websites. What I am speaking of is that at almost every
OS distribution there are list of packages, easy to find, search,
browse.

Please see here:
https://guix.gnu.org/

You can clearly see menu item "Packages", website visitor can at any
time locate it and search for packages. I do not speak of FSDF rather
of habits. OS users do have need to see at list a list of packages
like a single file, that is referenced from pages which user is
visiting. Putting it in a menu item is very good for website and for
distribution.

> https://freenix.net/fxp/freeslack64-14.2/

Let me say, it is confusing. Is it Freenix or Freeslack? I do not
know. I do not know what is Freeslack -- learn from this statement, as
your website is Freenix and not Freeslack. To me it is confusing.

Why would I search for list of packages in Freenix OS inside of a
Freeslack OS? That is viewpoint and my impression at this time. You
maybe equal those, me not, name is different, and there is no visible
proper justification for it, not on the first page. I found it later,
but you should consider harmonizing the name into one, not having two
of them. You can introduce HTTP redirects server-side to move to new
name.    

In this URL I find only 20 packages listed:
https://freenix.net/fxp/freeslack64-14.2/PACKAGES.TXT

⇛ So do you see now that I cannot find full list of packages?

Let me say that making a search for a package is very easy, I did it
years ago with simple grep and awk.

You can serialize information about one package into one single line,
just replace \n with space and remove redundant words such as "or"
"and" "the" "a" or similar. This allows for grep-ing the package. Once
greped, awk can extract the name of the package from specific field or
maybe URL as other field and construct HTML listing.

Or if packages have their URLs you can just run it through Markdown 
and make single HTML that is searchable by using browser functions. Or
Pandoc, and construct Wiki pages.

> > - Issues -- I have seen it, but I missed it, it is very hard to find
> >   issues. That is one of requirements.
> 
> In Participation article of the wiki, there are clear instructions for
> reporting issues.

That does not make it easy. Do you see that me, who took effort to
tell you about this, told you my experience, I came to site, I could
not find issues though I did see it on some page hyperlinked, but I
removed the page and could not find it any more. I hope you will
understand this as a serious impairment of the website. This is
positive critics for you to implement something.

I am asking myself, why people provide Search option on websites that
do not yield with result:
https://freenix.net/dokuwiki/doku.php?do=search&id=free_repository&q=issues

It is not just your problem. Again, if I wish to index all my website,
I would just convert it to single lines per page and use simple
functions to extract URLs and pages. Old method that worked before
25-30 years. Today people are complicating and do not get result.

In this example, I could not find "Issues" page. 

> Please let us know if you have any ideas for improving our
> communication via the wiki, the forum, or anything else, but please
> understand that there's absolutely nothing we can do to move the
> certification process forward at this time. Several years ago FSF
> told us to stand by while they are rendering their final decision,
> and they've done absolutely nothing since then, as far as we can
> tell, despite my occasional efforts to check in.

To me it looks like communication problem. First you should say to
which person did you communicate?

In regards to improvements, why call it expansion pack if it is not?
Or if it is not distribution in itself, make it clear. It is
confusing.

Still I do not find it right that you have the link here:
https://freenix.net/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=start#slackware_package_licensing

What does it mean "Slackware package licensing"? To me, first
impression is that you are licensing something.

Then second impression is that you talk about some packages that are
for commercial use only, thus non-free. And I run away.

Think about how you are communicating.

If you wish to say what is non-free clearly designate labels and say
what Slackware non-free packages have been excluded and why, you miss
only clearly designated labels.

I still don't understand is it fully integrated OS in itself, or I
need to use Slackware together?

Do you see here the breadcrumbs:
https://freenix.net/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=free_repository

Trace: • participation • licensing • slackware_14.1 • slackware_14.2 • 
slackware_14.0 • start • free_repository

I may think this is some kind of licensing related to your website,
there is no clear designation what you mean with it.

Don't write text by expecting people to know already 90% of the
subject, write it so, by thinking that person by reading one single
page should be able to understand all relevant information without
looking up other pages or third party pages.

I think "Report issue" should be in the menu.

Your link to report issue only points to forum. But forum does not
speak where to report which issue, it is not clear.

Compare it with other distributions, they receive reports, and you do
not receive reports. Find out why? Maybe it is not accessible website,
not appealing, not easy to find out.

Sometimes I make a HTML page and I just want that one page to stand
out without anything else, that is alright as purpose is not to browse
the page or look for some subjects. On Freenix website purpose should
be to hyperlink or relevant pages, especially those very much needed
and wanted:

- Main page
- Download
- Installation
- Documentation
- Package list
- Reporting issues
- Users' forum
- Donations
- Contacts

What do you think about it?

Jean

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