Re: "Why is emacs so square?"

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Joseph Garvin <address@hidden>
> Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2020 10:34:24 -0500
> Cc: Eli Zaretskii <address@hidden>, address@hidden, address@hidden, 
> address@hidden, 
>       address@hidden
> 
> I think part of the problem with things like the menu bar is that if you're 
> using emacs at all you are
> demonstrating a willingness to tolerate:
> 
> * A UI that doesn't look or behave like any other application
> * Keyboard shortcuts inconsistent with every other application
> * A bizarre ancient vocabulary inconsistent with every other application. 
> e.g. no Microsoft word user has ever
> considered themselves to have opened a "buffer". They open "files". They move 
> "windows" around, not
> "frames." They cut and paste not kill and yank, etc.
> 
> You are basically making a commitment to being or becoming a power user. I 
> certainly would not have put
> up with it if I didn't think it was going to save me a lot of time as a 
> software developer (and it does, everyday).
> I doubt anyone invests the mental effort to deal with learning emacs nowadays 
> unless this is their goal. If you
> just want to do "casual" text editing emacs is a very weird choice in 2020.

That's definitely something we should keep in mind, but what on earth
does it have to do with turning off the GUI elements of the Emacs UI?
Or with the advice to newbies to turn them off?

> If you're a new user the idea that seeing kill and yank in the menu bar as 
> options helps discoverablity doesn't
> really hold when already nothing is named the way you expect or acts the way 
> you expect. If you're an
> experienced user, then I would guess that like me C-h f,v,k and blog posts 
> are 99% of your discoverablity
> experience.

I suggest to take a good look at the menu bar, since we don't have
Kill and Yank there for a long time.  We have Cut and Copy and Paste
instead.