Re: [Paparazzi-devel] Problems with rotorcraft

More information:

I attach a capture of the INS acceleration in (xdd, ydd and zdd) when the engines are working and the quad in the ground.

I have to say that when a pass to ATT mode, even if the lisaM is totally isolated, the behaviour is the same.

When a upload my code to my other LisaM (also lisaM v2, like the other), the behaviour is the same (not normal).

That means that the problem is not in the board nor in the vibrations? Is maybe a problem of my code? Or are the ESCs?

Is extrange that 2 different boards work bad.

Any idea?

Thanks:

Inaki

From: address@hidden
To: address@hidden
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2014 07:56:15 +0000
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] Problems with rotorcraft

Hi all:

Thank you very much for your advices.

I´m using 30A OPTO 30-450Hz frequency response ESCs.

I have changed the gains, but in ATT mode the behaviour is not correct (it is not only due to the gains, because has an uncontrolable response) . Probably, like Oswal said, there is some fundamental thing working wrong, but I don´t know what: when I calibrate accelerometers and magnetometer seem to work well. When I command orders with RC the respose of the engines is correct.

In RATE mode, the behaviour is not as bad as ATT (the 4 engines work ok), but I can´t take off due to the instability.

Maybe the vibrations are the problem, but I have the LisaM and the GPS isolated , but anyway I don´t know the message on telemetry to check if is ok.

I have attached two captures of th rc signals and the comands in Rc, ATT and Rate mode.

I really appreciate your advice and help: there are many things that can be failing and your experience can help me a lot. Perhaps I'm making a big mistake, but I think that all the steps I'm following are appropriate.

Thank you very much:

Inaki

From: address@hidden
To: address@hidden
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 17:17:16 -0300
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] Problems with rotorcraft

BTW, are you using fast ESC (490hz + refresh rate capable ) ?
if yes, start your tests with:
P = 600;
I = 300;
D = 200;
DD = 0;

Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 16:34:50 +0200
From: address@hidden
To: address@hidden
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] Problems with rotorcraft

Hi,
As Eduardo recommended, did you check vibrations? Have a look at attitude angles and rates when running motors.
Then the pid values in example airframes should be a good starting point for tuning.
Regards
Loic

Le 16 juil. 2014 11:43, "I. Sánchez Ciarrusta" <address@hidden> a écrit :

New info:

When I try Att mode, the behavior does not seem to follow any pattern. Two engines are on and the other two are off, and at random times the engines that were on stop working and vice versa.

In RC mode, I have checked that the values sent by the rc and the commands are the same, I don´t know if that is correct and if the commands are directly send to the engines or suffer any change.

Escribe texto o la dirección de un sitio web, o bien, traduce un documento.

Cancelar

(I know fomr the documentation that :

Quizás quisiste decir: o si sufre alguna transformación
ppm input --(radio.xml)--> ppm_pulses[] --(radio.xml)--> radio_control.values[] --(rc_commands)--> commands[] --(command_laws,servos)--> actuators_pwm_values[] ppm out )

Thanks again:

Inaki

From: address@hidden
To: address@hidden
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2014 07:09:28 +0000
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] Problems with rotorcraft

Hi:

I am trying to fly my quadcopter in manual mode (RC or ATT).

As is very unstable, it is almost impossible to take off from the ground. So to have more room for maneuver, I fastened with ropes to try to take off to a certain height from the ground.

Following your advice I'm trying to modify the gains until it becomes stable.
However, I need your help because the nomenclature of the terms is not easy to understand.

I do not know exactly what criteria to follow. I have thought about starting setting zero all the "i"s and "d"s, with low "p"s (changing from the GCS the values of the tabs "Att Loop" and "Rate Loop", because I guess "Horiz Loop" and "Vert Loop" have only influence in autonomous modes ).

My values are:

Rate Loop:
pgain p400
pgain q 400
pgain r 350

igain p 75
igain q 75
igain r 50

ddgain p 300
ddgain q 300
ddgain r 300

Att Loop

pgain phi 1000
dgain p 400
igain phi 200
ddgain p 300

pgain theta 1000
dgain q 400
igain theta 200
ddgain q 300

(and the same for yaw)

I have another question: I usually fly comercial quads, very stable ones. Comercial quad copters (with NO autopiltot) have some kind of help for the stability? Why the one I am using for paparazzi is so unstable (dji f450); i have to change smth in the code?

Thank you very much in advance!!!

Inaki

From: address@hidden
To: address@hidden
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2014 09:50:12 +0000
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] Problems with rotorcraft

Hi Alonso,
thanks for your answer.

I will try that.

What is the best way for testing if the autopilot acts to control the attitude? Maybe start with AP_MODE:ATTITDE_DIRECT and then pass to "HOVER" or CF mode?
Is there a standard procedure?

Perhaps another problem is a bad vibration isolation of the board?

Thanks again!

Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2014 22:56:44 -0600
From: address@hidden
To: address@hidden
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] Problems with rotorcraft

maybe you should try the mode AP_MODE_ATTITUDE_DIRECT, in this mode it does not matter if the barometer works. It is ok to use one battery as long as you are giving the Lisa/M 5V . You will not get good performance without a barometer in automatic modes. If you have a Aspirin 2.2 then it does have a barometer. Try adding this  <configure name="LISA_M_BARO" value="BARO_MS5611_SPI"/> after <target name="ap" board="lisa_m_2.0"> .

On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 3:29 AM, I. Sánchez Ciarrusta <address@hidden> wrote:

Hi all.

I have recently tried to fly a quad (in + configuration) with paparazzi, and it was impossible to fly it.

It was really difficult to control, absolutelly unstable.

In addition, sometimes the PFD got “frozen” (and other times responded with delay), with no apparent reason.

We tried the hover mode, to observe if the autopilot actuated in every control, but nothing happened.

We are using Paparazzi v5.1_devel, LisaM/v2 board with NO barometer, aspirin 2.2 IMU, and ublox LEA-5 GPS.

The accelerometers and magnetometers are well calibrated.



Any advice is really appreciated.

Maybe is a problem because of not having barometer? Maybe the autopilot and the motors have to be alimented with separate batteries? I saw some reported problems in the mailing list, but I don´t know exactly how related are with my problem.

Thanks in advance.

Here is the airframe code we used:

<!DOCTYPE airframe SYSTEM "../airframe.dtd">

<airframe name="Quadrotor LisaM_2.0 pwm">

<firmware name="rotorcraft">

    <target name="ap" board="lisa_m_2.0">

      <define name="NO_RC_THRUST_LIMIT"/>



      <configure name="AHRS_PROPAGATE_FREQUENCY" value="500"/>

    </target>

    <target name="nps" board="pc">

      <subsystem name="fdm" type="jsbsim"/>

      <subsystem name="radio_control" type="ppm"/>

    </target>

    <subsystem name="motor_mixing"/>

    <subsystem name="actuators"     type="pwm">

      <define name="SERVO_HZ" value="400"/>



    </subsystem>

     <subsystem name="radio_control" type="ppm">

        <configure name="RADIO_CONTROL_PPM_PIN" value="SERVO6"/>

    </subsystem>

     <subsystem name="telemetry"     type="transparent">

                <configure name="MODEM_BAUD"    value="B57600"/>

                <configure name="MODEM_PORT"    value="UART2"/>

    </subsystem>

    <subsystem name="imu"           type="aspirin_v2.2"/>

    <subsystem name="gps"           type="ublox">

                <configure name="GPS_PORT"    value="UART3"/>

    </subsystem>

    <subsystem name="stabilization" type="int_quat"/>

    <subsystem name="ahrs"          type="int_cmpl_quat">

      <define name="AHRS_GRAVITY_HEURISTIC_FACTOR" value="30"/>

    </subsystem>

    <subsystem name="ins"/>

    

    <define name="TELEMETRY_MODE_FBW" value="1" />

</firmware>

<modules main_freq="512">

  <load name="gps_ubx_ucenter.xml">

                <define name="GPS_UBX_NAV5_DYNAMICS" value="NAV5_DYN_PEDESTRIAN"/>



</load>

</modules>

<servos driver="Pwm">

    <servo name="FRONT"   no="0" min="1000" neutral="1100" max="1900"/>

    <servo name="BACK"    no="1" min="1000" neutral="1100" max="1900"/>

    <servo name="RIGHT"   no="2" min="1000" neutral="1100" max="1900"/>

    <servo name="LEFT"    no="3" min="1000" neutral="1100" max="1900"/>

</servos>

<commands>

    <axis name="ROLL"   failsafe_value="0"/>

    <axis name="PITCH" failsafe_value="0"/>

    <axis name="YAW"    failsafe_value="0"/>

    <axis name="THRUST" failsafe_value="0"/>

</commands>

<section name="MIXING" prefix="MOTOR_MIXING_">

    <define name="TRIM_ROLL" value="0"/>

    <define name="TRIM_PITCH" value="0"/>

    <define name="TRIM_YAW" value="0"/>

    <define name="NB_MOTOR" value="4"/>

    <define name="SCALE" value="256"/>

    

    <define name="ROLL_COEF"   value="{    0,    0, -256, 256 }"/>

    <define name="PITCH_COEF" value="{ 256, -256,    0,    0 }"/>

    <define name="YAW_COEF"    value="{ -256, -256, 256, 256 }"/>

    <define name="THRUST_COEF" value="{ 256, 256, 256, 256 }"/>

</section>

<command_laws>

    <call fun="motor_mixing_run(autopilot_motors_on,FALSE,values)"/>

    <set servo="FRONT" value="motor_mixing.commands[SERVO_FRONT]"/>

    <set servo="BACK"   value="motor_mixing.commands[SERVO_BACK]"/>

    <set servo="RIGHT" value="motor_mixing.commands[SERVO_RIGHT]"/>

    <set servo="LEFT"   value="motor_mixing.commands[SERVO_LEFT]"/>

</command_laws>



<section name="IMU" prefix="IMU_">

   <define name="ACCEL_X_NEUTRAL" value="24"/>

<define name="ACCEL_Y_NEUTRAL" value="8"/>

<define name="ACCEL_Z_NEUTRAL" value="264"/>

<define name="ACCEL_X_SENS" value="4.93314498567" integer="16"/>

<define name="ACCEL_Y_SENS" value="4.86671471234" integer="16"/>

<define name="ACCEL_Z_SENS" value="4.86346803582" integer="16"/>

    

    <define name="MAG_X_NEUTRAL" value="8"/>

    <define name="MAG_Y_NEUTRAL" value="-12"/>

    <define name="MAG_Z_NEUTRAL" value="35"/>

    <define name="MAG_X_SENS" value="3.53511175627" integer="16"/>

    <define name="MAG_Y_SENS" value="3.49864611794" integer="16"/>

    <define name="MAG_Z_SENS" value="3.96410626337" integer="16"/>

    <define name="BODY_TO_IMU_PHI"   value="0." unit="deg"/>

    <define name="BODY_TO_IMU_THETA" value="0." unit="deg"/>

    <define name="BODY_TO_IMU_PSI"   value="0." unit="deg"/>

</section>

<section name="AHRS" prefix="AHRS_">

    <define name="H_X" value="0.3770441"/>

    <define name="H_Y" value="0.0193986"/>

    <define name="H_Z" value="0.9259921"/>

</section>

<section name="INS" prefix="INS_">

</section>

<section name="STABILIZATION_RATE" prefix="STABILIZATION_RATE_">

    

    <define name="SP_MAX_P" value="10000"/>

    <define name="SP_MAX_Q" value="10000"/>

    <define name="SP_MAX_R" value="10000"/>

    <define name="DEADBAND_P" value="20"/>

    <define name="DEADBAND_Q" value="20"/>

    <define name="DEADBAND_R" value="200"/>

    <define name="REF_TAU" value="4"/>

    

    <define name="GAIN_P" value="400"/>

    <define name="GAIN_Q" value="400"/>

    <define name="GAIN_R" value="350"/>

    <define name="IGAIN_P" value="75"/>

    <define name="IGAIN_Q" value="75"/>

    <define name="IGAIN_R" value="50"/>

    

    <define name="DDGAIN_P" value="300"/>

    <define name="DDGAIN_Q" value="300"/>

    <define name="DDGAIN_R" value="300"/>

</section>

<section name="STABILIZATION_ATTITUDE" prefix="STABILIZATION_ATTITUDE_">

    

    <define name="SP_MAX_PHI"     value="45." unit="deg"/>

    <define name="SP_MAX_THETA"   value="45." unit="deg"/>

    <define name="SP_MAX_R"       value="90." unit="deg/s"/>

    <define name="DEADBAND_A"     value="0"/>

    <define name="DEADBAND_E"     value="0"/>

    <define name="DEADBAND_R"     value="250"/>

    

    <define name="REF_OMEGA_P" value="400" unit="deg/s"/>

    <define name="REF_ZETA_P"   value="0.85"/>

    <define name="REF_MAX_P"    value="400." unit="deg/s"/>

    <define name="REF_MAX_PDOT" value="RadOfDeg(8000.)"/>

    <define name="REF_OMEGA_Q" value="400" unit="deg/s"/>

    <define name="REF_ZETA_Q"   value="0.85"/>

    <define name="REF_MAX_Q"    value="400." unit="deg/s"/>

    <define name="REF_MAX_QDOT" value="RadOfDeg(8000.)"/>

    <define name="REF_OMEGA_R" value="250" unit="deg/s"/>

    <define name="REF_ZETA_R"   value="0.85"/>

    <define name="REF_MAX_R"    value="180." unit="deg/s"/>

    <define name="REF_MAX_RDOT" value="RadOfDeg(1800.)"/>

    

    <define name="PHI_PGAIN" value="1000"/>

    <define name="PHI_DGAIN" value="400"/>

    <define name="PHI_IGAIN" value="200"/>

    <define name="THETA_PGAIN" value="1000"/>

    <define name="THETA_DGAIN" value="400"/>

    <define name="THETA_IGAIN" value="200"/>

    <define name="PSI_PGAIN" value="500"/>

    <define name="PSI_DGAIN" value="300"/>

    <define name="PSI_IGAIN" value="10"/>

    

    <define name="PHI_DDGAIN"   value="300"/>

    <define name="THETA_DDGAIN" value="300"/>

    <define name="PSI_DDGAIN"   value="300"/>

</section>

<section name="GUIDANCE_V" prefix="GUIDANCE_V_">

    <define name="MIN_ERR_Z"   value="POS_BFP_OF_REAL(-10.)"/>

    <define name="MAX_ERR_Z"   value="POS_BFP_OF_REAL( 10.)"/>

    <define name="MIN_ERR_ZD" value="SPEED_BFP_OF_REAL(-10.)"/>

    <define name="MAX_ERR_ZD" value="SPEED_BFP_OF_REAL( 10.)"/>

    <define name="MAX_SUM_ERR" value="2000000"/>

    <define name="HOVER_KP"    value="150"/>

    <define name="HOVER_KD"    value="80"/>

    <define name="HOVER_KI"    value="20"/>

    <define name="NOMINAL_HOVER_THROTTLE" value="0.6"/>

    <define name="ADAPT_THROTTLE_ENABLED" value="TRUE"/>

</section>

<section name="GUIDANCE_H" prefix="GUIDANCE_H_">

    <define name="MAX_BANK" value="20" unit="deg"/>

    <define name="USE_SPEED_REF" value="TRUE"/>

    <define name="PGAIN" value="50"/>

    <define name="DGAIN" value="100"/>

    <define name="AGAIN" value="100"/>

    <define name="IGAIN" value="20"/>

</section>

<section name="SIMULATOR" prefix="NPS_">

    <define name="ACTUATOR_NAMES" value="{"front_motor", "back_motor", "right_motor", "left_motor"}"/>

    <define name="JSBSIM_INIT" value=""reset00""/>

    <define name="JSBSIM_MODEL" value=""simple_quad""/>

    <define name="SENSORS_PARAMS" value=""nps_sensors_params_default.h""/>

    

    <define name="JS_AXIS_MODE" value="4"/>

</section>

<section name="AUTOPILOT">



      <define name="MODE_MANUAL" value="AP_MODE_KILL"/>

      <define name="MODE_AUTO2" value="AP_MODE_NAV"/>

      <define name="MODE_AUTO1" value="AP_MODE_RC_DIRECT"/>

  </section>

<section name="BAT">

    <define name="CATASTROPHIC_BAT_LEVEL" value="9.3" unit="V"/>

    <define name="CRITIC_BAT_LEVEL" value="9.6" unit="V"/>

    <define name="LOW_BAT_LEVEL" value="10.1" unit="V"/>

    <define name="MAX_BAT_LEVEL" value="12.4" unit="V"/>

    <define name="MILLIAMP_AT_FULL_THROTTLE" value="30000"/>

</section>

</airframe>

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From:	I . Sánchez Ciarrusta
Subject:	Re: [Paparazzi-devel] Problems with rotorcraft
Date:	Fri, 18 Jul 2014 08:44:38 +0000