Re: [Paparazzi-devel] question about paparazzi on sounding rocket

[Eric Parsonage]

You have to wonder what genius brought any of this to there attention!!!

Perhaps in Australia hardware that could possibly run Paparazzi should be given 
another name.



On 15/02/2012, at 12:17 AM, Chris Gough wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 12:27 AM, Florin Mingireanu
> <address@hidden> wrote:
>> Does this imply that UAVdevboard and Ardupilot Mega are also under MTCR/ITAR
>> or there is something special to paparazzi that places it under MTCR/ITAR?
> 
> I'm not aware of any reason why paparazzi hardware would be "a
> dual-use good" and the other open source autopilots would not be.
> 
> But the assessment process is opaque. Maybe they just didn't like my shoes :)
> 
> Chris Gough
> 
>> On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 3:22 PM, Chris Gough <address@hidden>
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> The best thing about open source software an hardware (at lease with
>>>> GPL) is
>>>> that it is outside of MTCR and ITAR restrictions.
>>> 
>>> I have formal advice contradicting this from the Australian Defence
>>> Department (Defence Export Control Office).
>>> 
>>> Their technical assessment found that paparazzi autopilot hardware is
>>> a "dual-use good" under MTCR. It took me ~9 months and >20 submissions
>>> to get a license to export it.
>>> 
>>> Don't piss them off, they have a big stick.
>>> 
>>> Chris Gough
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPad mini.
>>>> 
>>>> On 14/02/2012, at 11:58 PM, Florin Mingireanu
>>>> <address@hidden> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> One way to do it is to not attempt any inertial correction during the
>>>> burn.
>>>> After the burn out roll/yaw/pitch stabilization can commence. You don't
>>>> have
>>>> a high g environment anymore. Also it helps if the rocket is inherently
>>>> not
>>>> planned to roll fast...
>>>> In this case I could see that an open source autopilot (like paparazzi)
>>>> could do the task of stabilizing the vehicle.
>>>> 
>>>> Florin
>>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 2:56 PM, Bernard Davison
>>>> <address@hidden>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> The nominal burn time for the motors is 0.8-1.25 seconds.
>>>>> The 3" Sighter and the 5" Zuni motors have pretty similar burn times.
>>>>> 
>>>>> We launch them at an angle of 70 degrees so they always land several
>>>>> kms
>>>>> away from us.
>>>>> It also helps protect us when the student payloads break off. Which
>>>>> happens from time to time with some of the designs.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Bernie.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPad mini.
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 14/02/2012, at 11:48 PM, Florin Mingireanu
>>>>> <address@hidden> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> How long does the burn take? 2-3 seconds?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Florin
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 2:47 PM, Bernard Davison
>>>>> <address@hidden>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The launch is >70G ;-)
>>>>>> The thing goes from a compete standstill to >Mach 2 in 1 second.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The rockets we usually use are surplus defense motors.
>>>>>> http://www.asri.org.au/SSRP
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> We did have a payload once that was going to try and maintain a lock
>>>>>> throughout the flight but it got buried. :-(
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Bernie.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPad mini.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 14/02/2012, at 11:41 PM, Florin Mingireanu
>>>>>> <address@hidden> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Why doesn't the GPS keep lock during the ascent? I have seen GPS data
>>>>>> loggers for high power rocketry that keep lock during the ascent. What
>>>>>> type
>>>>>> of GPS module do you use?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>> Florin
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 2:38 PM, Bernard Davison
>>>>>> <address@hidden> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Yep standard civilian GPSs have been flown. They lose position of
>>>>>>> course
>>>>>>> at launch but do acquire solution after the main parachute opens.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Also the MEMS accelerometers have been flown and data logged.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The major problem we've always faced is knowing what went wrong when
>>>>>>> things don't work and the thing is buried 5m underground and the
>>>>>>> rocket has
>>>>>>> turned itself into metal confetti.
>>>>>>> We've worked out what we believe  Will be a survivable data storage
>>>>>>> module. Hopefully to be tested in the next year or so.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> At the moment were breaking the Lisa/L board up into smaller
>>>>>>> components
>>>>>>> and designing them to be rugged. I.e. positive locking connectors
>>>>>>> isolation
>>>>>>> on some switches and comms. Etc.
>>>>>>> We're also breaking the board into discrete task based "nodes" that
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>> communicate via redundant CAN bus connectors. So in the future it
>>>>>>> would be
>>>>>>> possible to have a failure tolerant system. I.e. if you have a
>>>>>>> failure of a
>>>>>>> transceiver node, IMU node, flight computer node, CAN bus. Then it
>>>>>>> could use
>>>>>>> another node on the network.
>>>>>>> Of course that would need the appropriate software to be written for
>>>>>>> that kind of control.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> Bernie.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Paparazzi-devel mailing list
>>>>>> address@hidden
>>>>>> https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/paparazzi-devel
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Florin Mingireanu
>>>>> Romanian Space Agency
>>>>> Str. Mendeleev 21-25, et. 5, sector 1, 010362 Bucuresti, ROMANIA
>>>>> office tel. +40-21-316.87.22; +40-21-316.87.23;
>>>>> cell: +40-757-768971 (primary phone)
>>>>> fax +40-21-312.88.04
>>>>> address@hidden
>>>>> http://www.rosa.ro
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> address@hidden
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>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> address@hidden
>>>>> https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/paparazzi-devel
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Florin Mingireanu
>>>> Romanian Space Agency
>>>> Str. Mendeleev 21-25, et. 5, sector 1, 010362 Bucuresti, ROMANIA
>>>> office tel. +40-21-316.87.22; +40-21-316.87.23;
>>>> cell: +40-757-768971 (primary phone)
>>>> fax +40-21-312.88.04
>>>> address@hidden
>>>> http://www.rosa.ro
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/paparazzi-devel
>>>> 
>>>> 
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>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> .
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
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>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Florin Mingireanu
>> Romanian Space Agency
>> Str. Mendeleev 21-25, et. 5, sector 1, 010362 Bucuresti, ROMANIA
>> office tel. +40-21-316.87.22; +40-21-316.87.23;
>> cell: +40-757-768971 (primary phone)
>> fax +40-21-312.88.04
>> address@hidden
>> http://www.rosa.ro
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Paparazzi-devel mailing list
>> address@hidden
>> https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/paparazzi-devel
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> .
> 
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