Re: A thought on Windows Experience

[Richard Shann]

On Mon, 2013-12-09 at 09:52 +0100, David Kastrup wrote:
> James Harkins <address@hidden> writes:
> 
> > Carl's two-column approach is pretty much what I had in
> > mind. Although, he suggests this would be only a slight improvement. I
> > think it could be more than that. Suppose we introduce the downloads
> > with a couple of paragraphs across the top:
> >
> > ~~
> > IMPORTANT: A complete working environment for LilyPond consists of two
> > components: LilyPond itself, and a music editor. If you have installed
> > only one of these, then you're not experiencing LilyPond's full power.
> 
> That's nonsensical.  You'll be experiencing LilyPond's full power if and
> only if you have LilyPond itself installed.
> 
> > NEW USERS: After installing LilyPond for your operating system, review
> > the editors in the right-hand column and install one of them. Use the
> > editor as your primary LilyPond interface.
> 
> Again: I think the graphical environments should cater for
> downloading/installing LilyPond itself, and at least Denemo currently
> seems to do this, while Frescobaldi is quite open to that.
> 
> As long as its developers are actively participating on this list and
> interested in making things easier for the users, I'd lean towards
> something like:
> 
> LilyPond is a _command_ _line_ application translating files written in
> LilyPond's music description language [see text input] into complete
> scores.  It does _not_ constitute a work environment.  What you will be
> working with for entering your scores is either a text editor of your
> choice, or a tool specialized for creating LilyPond files.
> 
> Denemo: this is a GUI application for writing music scores that uses
> LilyPond internally for creating its output.  While working with it, you
> will not be exposed to the LilyPond language at all,

This is incorrect. If you double click on a note, repeat bar ... you are
told the LilyPond syntax that this element has created. If you switch to
the LilyPond view of the Denemo score you see the LilyPond syntax and
can edit it. There are some limitations still in that editing (e.g.
changing a note to a different note is still not possible, and there is
no syntax highlighting, but you can re-write entirely the score layout
starting from the default).


>  and the LilyPond
> documentation will be mostly irrelevant.

I think this is not so either: it is slightly daft that you need to run
the insert LilyPond command in the main Denemo display rather than in
the LilyPond view in order to start inserting text, but the LilyPond
syntax is entirely relevant if you want to do things that Denemo does
not have built in. Ok, so it is mostly irrelevant if you just want to do
things that Denemo has built in, but I am sure you have written all that
other LilyPond syntax for very good reasons :)

Richard


>   Since it has a number of input
> methods as well as Midi input, it may also be used as an input tool for
> entering the bulk of your music material first and exporting it to
> native LilyPond format for further editing.
>   If you employ it in this
> manner, you will still need an editor suitable for working directly with
> the LilyPond language.  Denemo already includes a version of LilyPond
> and can be downloaded here [Download from external link].
> 
> Frescobaldi: this is a specialized editor with lots of support for
> creating and maintaining scores in the LilyPond language itself.  As
> opposed to Denemo, you'll be responsible for writing every bit, and your
> main reference will be the LilyPond documentation which is also
> accessible from within Frescobaldi.  Frescobaldi can download and
> install any version of LilyPond itself via the .../... menu and is
> available here [Download from external link].
> 
> LilyPond: command line driven compiler of the LilyPond language.  If you
> want to install just LilyPond itself and will be working with an editor
> of your choice, you can download it from here [Download]
> 
> Something like that.
>