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Re: Multiple tensions in Chord Mode
From: |
Jeff Barnes |
Subject: |
Re: Multiple tensions in Chord Mode |
Date: |
Fri, 1 Jun 2012 15:16:55 -0700 (PDT) |
> From: Louis Guillaume
>> If I may start with a bit of humble philosophy, when I see a flat
>> 9 especially, I almost always conclude that the tonality will
>> include a sharp 9 as well, simply because of the dissonance that
>> would result from having the flat 9 competing against an
>> unaltered 9.
>
> Not to mention the root, which is smunched up with those!
My turn to offer in humility.
I would almost never assume any other alteration or extension except what was
explicitly in the chord symbol.
>
>> Not to say that it could never happen, it just
>> strikes me as being rare. This doesn't necessarily work the
>> other way around. A sharp 9 chord to me would normally imply a
>> normal 9 also, unless inspection of the melody or harmony
>> suggests a flat 9 would be more appropriate, in which case I'll
>> grumble that the arranger should have written a flat 9.
>
> But maybe [s]he doesn't want you anywhere near the flat nine :). At
> least for your part. We are talking chord symbols so there's expected
> interpretation. I think when tensions are explicitly described on a
> part, they are not subject to as much interpretation as if you were
> playing off a lead-sheet.
>
>> In summary, IMHO:
>>
>> flat 9 = flat 9 and usually sharp 9 also
>> sharp 9 = sharp 9 and usually natural 9 (or 2)
> I think that's accurate for the most part. Obviously there's a lot of
> interpretation involved with this kind of thing.
Further alteration of the 9th is implicit in an -alt directive only (to me).
But sharp 9 doesn't mean add2 (to me).
>> If you want a flat 9 sharp 9 chord, consider using a flat 9 and
>> leaving the sharp 9 implied. This is especially appropriate if
>> the key signature implies a sharp 9 (C7 b9 in key of Db, Bb or Ab
>> for example)
To me you are making the case for an -alt chord.
>> IMHO, this situation also arises around flat fifths -- a flat
>> fifth would almost always cause me to assume a sharp fifth as
>> well.
>
> I'm not so sure about that. Certainly there's no natural 5th (it's
> been
> explicitly flattened), but the 6th could certainly be natural. Consider
> the mode "c d e f ges a bes".
To me, there is no such thing as a flat 6. It's flat 13, and almost always that
means -alt. The definition of -alt to me is altered 9th and flat 13.
Although... I usually omit the 11th in an alt chord. Hmmm I may need to
re-think.
>
>> C7 b5 often implies a whole-tone scale (c d e ges aes bes
>> c). However, I don't make this assumption about sharp 11 chords.
>> I assume that sharp 11 chords are chosen to make the fourth tone
>> of the mode be only a half step away from the perfect fifth,
>> Lydian-style.
>
> Yes 7,#11 chords are almost certainly Lydian-flat-seven.
Agreed, but most of the time, I would prefer to see the 13th with a #11.