[Koha-translate] Re: FW: Dutch versions

[Hans Supply]

Marcel,

I think you are mixing things up about the names for country, its 
inhabitants and their language.

Nederland, Nederlanders, Nederlands
The Netherlands, The Dutch, Dutch

België, Belgen, Nederlands
Belgium, Belgians, Dutch

Again a mixup for written and spoken language.

There is only _one_ offical written language: Nederlands (Dutch)! 
(Therefore there should only be _one_ translation!)
As for the spoken language, there are numerous dialects in both countries.
This is why Flemish is _not_ a language!


And this is odd about your proposed patch:

-------
(I sent a patch to Koha for showing this difference too in the about 
template.
Like:
·  Nederlands (Dutch) Sponsored by Rijksmuseum
·  Nederlands, Vlaams (Dutch as spoken in Belgium, Flemish)
)
--------

Stating our Belgian translation would not be accepted in your situation 
is almost insulting to our translators who did a really good job for 
this fourth version of the translation!

For all I know you may want to use NL-RM and NL.

Serious now. The patch should read:
NL-NL and NL-BE
Nederlands-Nederland and Nederlands-België


And for the record, we do subscribe to Frederics idea that it would be 
better to join our efforts in one translation!

Regards,





Op 17/02/11 10:08, Marcel de Rooy schreef:
> Beste Hans,
>
> Ik benader je graag even met een vraag over de naamgeving van de twee
> huidige Koha vertalingen. Je emailadres stond vermeld als de last
> translator.
>
> In onderstaande communicatie doe ik de translation manager eigenlijk het
> verzoek om het onderscheid tussen nl-NL en nl-BE op de openingspagina
> van Pootle (http://translate.koha-community.org/) nog iets duidelijker
> te maken.
>
> Kun je je daarin ook vinden? Of heb je verdere suggesties tot verbetering?
>
> Hartelijk bedankt voor je aandacht.
>
> Marcel de Rooy
>
> Rijksmuseum
>
> PS Wat mij betreft, zou je ook in het Engels op mijn vorige bericht naar
> de mailing list mogen reageren. (address@hidden)
>
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
>
> Van: Frédéric DEMIANS [mailto:address@hidden
>
> Verzonden: dinsdag 15 februari 2011 18:05
>
> Aan: Marcel de Rooy
>
> CC: address@hidden
>
> Onderwerp: Re: Dutch versions
>
>  > At this time we have in Pootle: Dutch [nl-BE] and Dutch (Nederland)
>
>  > [nl-NL].
>
>  > Dutch (Nederland) is a mixup of two languages.
>
> I don't understand. Why is this translation a mixed? What are those thow
>
> languages?
>
> I mean in the name: ‘Dutch’ is English; ‘Nederland’ is Dutch word. (On
> the start page of Pootle.)
>
>  >
>
>  > The English form should be Dutch (The Netherlands), the translated
>
>  > form should be Nederlands (Nederland).
>
>  > We could further improve the distinction by renaming the other one,
>
>  > Dutch, to:
>
>  > Dutch (Belgium) or natively: Nederlands (België)
>
>  >
>
>  > Additionally, we could even add Flemish [native: Vlaams] in the
>
>  > description too. Many people from Belgium appear to prefer that,
>
>  > although it may not be the official name of the language spoken in
>
>  > Belgium. In that case we could change to:
>
>  > Dutch, Flemish (Belgium) or natively: Nederlands, Vlaams (België)
>
> What are the differences between the two regional versions of Dutch? Is
>
> it relevant to have two versions of 'similar' language? I just ask.
>
> Isn't it any chance to have in Koha one unique version of Dutch
>
> localization and gain sharing on cooperation on this translation
>
> between translators?
>
> Although the languages are called both Dutch, they are quite different.
> They use a lot of different words and expressions. We would understand
> them in the Netherlands, but they would be considered typically Belgian.
> The Belgian translation of the OPAC would not be accepted in our situation.
>
> Please note that this situation is not different from two English
> translations for UK and US or two Spanish translations for Spain and
> South-America, etc.
>
>  > I sent a patch to Koha for showing this difference too in the about
>
>  > template.
>
>  >
>
>  > Like:
>
>  >
>
>  > • Nederlands (Dutch) Sponsored by Rijksmuseum
>
>  > • Nederlands, Vlaams (Dutch as spoken in Belgium, Flemish)
>
> Can someone from Belgium confirm that there is a consensus on this? I
>
> have no idea.
>
> I will try to get in touch with one of them. (address@hidden)
>
>  > Could you also take a look at that patch and signoff if you agree?
>
> Will do if I can have some feedback from other Dutch translators.
>
> Patch got pushed already for the about page. Would have been better if
> it would have had your signoff first. But it only describes the current
> situation; not meeting consensus on that would be ‘strange’. If we could
> still improve on that text, we could send a follow up patch.
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
>
> Frédéric DEMIANS
>
> http://www.tamil.fr/u/fdemians.html