Re: About SWH, let avoid the wrong discussion

[MSavoritias]

On Fri, 21 Jun 2024 10:39:50 +0200
Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@gmail.com> wrote:


Hey,

Just wanted to send a quick reply that as I have mentioned elsewhere I do not 
wish to see SWH go. I think they are doing great work.
and as I mention in my first email I want to apply social pressure and make it 
clear to package authors what is happening so we can move to an opt-in model.

It was never my intent to make it seem like we need to burn all bridges with 
SWH. I do think they have done mistakes but that is not a reason to break apart.
We definetily need something like SWH and I do hope to see them come around to 
a consentual model.

MSavoritias

> Hi all,
> 
> For the record, the Software Heritage initiative is supportive of the
> Guix project since years.
> 
> It means that members of Guix community have or had interactions with
> Software Heritage (SWH) teams since years.  For example, the blog post
> “Connecting reproducible deployment to a long-term source code archive”
> [1] published in 2019.  And more recently, the scientific communication
> “Source Code Archiving to the Rescue of Reproducible Deployment” [2].
> 
> Almost 6 years of friendly interactions and shared values.
> 
> Could we avoid to express definitive opinions based on partial
> considerations about multi-dimensional topics?
> 
> Since years, several members of Guix community are helped in one way or
> the other by SWH team members in improving free software ecosystem.
> 
> Well, I speak for myself: I have been invited to several events
> organized by SWH and it’s up to you to trust me when I say: SWH team
> works very hard to embrace all the diversity of FOSS communities.  For
> example, I recently attended to a talk organized by SWH about Commons;
> that talk had been a very good food for thought and maybe it could feed
> our current discussion about governance/sociocracy via comments here or
> there I could commit, I do not know, maybe.
> 
> Well, I am very grateful for the opportunity to interact with SWH teams.
> 
> For the record, SWH provided various supports for the organization of 10
> Years of Guix, back in 2022.  Please remember that SWH team members were
> there and some stayed all the three days; probably because we are a nice
> community?  All the video stream and good videos of the 10 Years of Guix
> event you probably watched or maybe watch again is because the tireless
> work of multi-hats person (Debian Developer, Debian Video Team, … and
> working at SWH) helped by Guix community members.
> 
> Please check the Copyright header for the subcommand “guix locate”.
> Yes, it had been partly written by one SWH team member because, yes they
> run Guix.  Yes, their day-job is at SWH and they are also part of our
> Guix community by contributing to Guix source code.
> 
> Now, you take it as it is: I am sad by what people are concluding!
> 
> Yes I understand why people are angry.  Yes discussions must happen.
> 
> However, I was expecting more benefit of the doubt considering history
> and track record.  Hum, even, maybe, I am asking myself if Guix
> community is indeed nice or if this time the community is just harsh and
> unfair.
> 
> Do we forget the track record and the common history?
> 
> Then, for what my opinion is worth, fighting against SWH while thinking
> it’s fighting against LLM/AI is the wrong fight.  Because 1. we are all
> in the team.  And 2. because SWH could be a facilitator for helping in
> some regulations, maybe, I do not know.  Somehow, I agree with Ekaitz.
> 
> You take it as it is: I was expecting more humility by Guix community
> members.  Do you really think that a collective of people involved in
> various FOSS communities with different roles, dedicating their free
> time to free software or open source movements, do you think they are
> the bad actors here?
> 
> My humility tells me, as I expressed several times, nothing is ignored.
> 
> Yes I also got the point about the lack of transparency.  As I said
> above, FWIW, I am in touch with SWH team.  Well, I do not have special
> information from SWH and I trust them to have listened or are still
> listening various communities.  So my understanding is: work is in
> progress…  Somehow, wait and see.
> 
> Yes I know we cannot wait forever.  Again, do we forget the track record
> and the common history?  Do we consider that a multi-layers topic
> involving legal or ethics questions is straightforward to articulate?
> 
> My humility tells me to wait to have clear and better understanding
> about SWH motivations, their rationale, the measures and
> counter-measures they maybe have in mind.  Be patient and tolerant as I
> am with my friends.
> 
> Long enough email and thread.  That’s all from me! :-)
> 
> My last message.  Not because I am bored but because one week of
> holidays is starting now for me. ;-)
> 
> 1: 
> https://guix.gnu.org/en/blog/2019/connecting-reproducible-deployment-to-a-long-term-source-code-archive/
> 2: https://hal.science/hal-04586520v1
> 
> Cheers,
> simon