Re: "Why is emacs so square?"

[ndame]

>
> Here's the problem: You have to learn the VS Code API. I'd say learning
> that, and becoming reasonably proficient at it takes longer than
> skimming through the Emacs Lisp intro.

Learning lisp needs a new mindset while the VS Code API is just a bunch
of method calls.

And you don't need to learn the whole API. When I wrote an extension for
a test, to see how hard it is then I just googled things and used those
parts which I needed. I certanly didn't learn the whole vscode API, because
it wasn't necessary.

> > VScode has a very nice out of the box experience. If you want support
> > for a language then it's one click to install it and it installs the
> > necessary scaffolding too, like a language server for the language.
>
> We have several starter packs, with similarly nice OOTB experiences.

But they are not advertised on the emacs homepage, so a new user who just
googles emacs doesn't necessarily know about them.


>
> Electron is not free software (https://labs.parabola.nu/issues/1167),
> and is definitely not as well suited to providing an integrated
> experience like Emacs.

I know it's not free software. I just meant it provided many features
out of the box which has to be implemented separately for emacs.


> For instance, even if you render raw HTML inside VS Code, you would not
> be able to grab the region using VSC APIs. I'm not sure if the VSC API
> allows interacting with the DOM, but from what I can tell, it can't.

Certainly, it's more limited some ways, you don't have the freedom to
access everything like in Emacs.

>
> We have Cua mode. No, you don't need to have it enabled by default,
> since it would result in unnecessary breakage for old users.

Well, I think old users could adapt for the sake of new users. New users
shouldn't encounter lots of strange concepts from the start.

For example, the current tutorial may not be the best
approach. Explaining about cursor movement with C-f and C-b? Windows
and frames?

Why a new user who casually wants to try emacs has to start with this?

A new user can use the cursor keys and the mouse to operate the
menus. Rather than focusing on strange keys for cursor movement a
better approach could be explaining what emacs does better than other
tools and how to use those features.

And users could be informed on the startup screen that they can learn
traditional emacs keys in a separate tutorial if they are interested.

>
> I personally think that the Emacs bindings are better, and in the end
> work better with Emacs itself, but I do agree that newcomers should be
> allowed to familiarize themselves with Emacs before moving their
> workflow (and habits) to it entirely.

Exactly. Users should encounter a familiar environment first, using
the keys they are used to. They can always move on if they decide to
stay with emacs.