Re: "Why is emacs so square?"

[Po Lu]

ndame <address@hidden> writes:

> I agree that Emacs is easier to program once you learned it, but
> other editors, like VSCode, has the advantage that you don't have to
> learn a quirky and unfamiliar language first.

> Many developers know Javascript and even if one doesn't it's more similar
> to mainstream languages than lisp, so extension writers mostly has to
> learn the VSCode API only.

Here's the problem: You have to learn the VS Code API. I'd say learning
that, and becoming reasonably proficient at it takes longer than
skimming through the Emacs Lisp intro.

> VScode has a very nice out of the box experience. If you want support
> for a language then it's one click to install it and it installs the
> necessary scaffolding too, like a language server for the language.

We have several starter packs, with similarly nice OOTB experiences.
> And it has Electron for display support which has a mature browser
> engine behind it, so it can support advanced graphics features out
> of the box on all the supported platforms.

Electron is not free software (https://labs.parabola.nu/issues/1167),
and is definitely not as well suited to providing an integrated
experience like Emacs.

For instance, even if you render raw HTML inside VS Code, you would not
be able to grab the region using VSC APIs.  I'm not sure if the VSC API
allows interacting with the DOM, but from what I can tell, it can't.

There are also various other issues, with relying on a lower-level
abstraction for "nice graphics features" (the DOM) that is outside the
editors control.

> Out of the box experience matters. Familiarity matters (e.g supporting
> standard keys on the platfrom for cut and paste). Nice appearance matters.

We have Cua mode.  No, you don't need to have it enabled by default,
since it would result in unnecessary breakage for old users.  It would
be nice if the startup screen informed users of features such as the
(hypothetical) GTK theme previously mentioned, and Cua.

I personally think that the Emacs bindings are better, and in the end
work better with Emacs itself, but I do agree that newcomers should be
allowed to familiarize themselves with Emacs before moving their
workflow (and habits) to it entirely.

> No wonder lot of developers choose VScode:
> https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?geo=US&q=emacs%20editor,visual%20studio%20code

We're here to change that :)