Re: apps-gnustep Digest, Vol 47, Issue 3

2010/2/16 <address@hidden>

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: State of the 'Step (Dirk Olmes)
2. Re: State of the 'Step (Gregory Casamento)
3. Re: State of the 'Step (J. Jordan)
4. Re: State of the 'Step (J. Jordan)
5. Problem : openapp: command not found (Thomas Wawra)
6. Re: State of the 'Step (J. Jordan)
7. Re: Problem : openapp: command not found (J. Jordan)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 14:34:29 +0100
From: Dirk Olmes <address@hidden>
Subject: Re: State of the 'Step
To: "J. Jordan" <address@hidden>
Cc: address@hidden, address@hidden
Message-ID: <address@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

> Zipper, wish it did not depend on Renissance, put an * in for the
> filename to gunzip to a directory.

Would you care to elaborate? While chances are low that I'll get rid of
the dependency on Renaissance, I'd like to hear about any bugs in Zipper.

-dirk

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 16:26:33 -0500
From: Gregory Casamento <address@hidden>
Subject: Re: State of the 'Step
To: "Ronald C.F. Antony" <address@hidden>
Cc: address@hidden, Fred Kiefer <address@hidden>,
address@hidden
Message-ID:
<address@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Ronald,

You're preaching to the choir here on this one. Any ideas how to make
that happen? I would love to get up to date packages everywhere.

Thanks, GC

On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 3:39 AM, Ronald C.F. Antony <address@hidden> wrote:
> Even more to the point: unless there are simple GnuStep meta-packages for the major BSD and Linux distributions that are reasonable "click-install-run" easy, most of the effort going into GNUStep is wasted, because except for a few nostalgic exNeXT users and a few developers, nobody is going to use it.
> I didn't have time to play with GNUStep for ages, but I keep following the development from a distance, but think about it for a moment: if KDE or something like it would require that level of involvement just to get going, do you think it would have the sort of adoption it has now?
>
> Ronald
>
> On 14 Feb 2010, at 16:34, Fred Kiefer wrote:
>
>> Great to hear how much GNUstep software you are using. But being a
>> developer I am most interested in what didn't work :-(
>> Why did you have to abandon your attempt to compile GNUstep from SVN?
>> (We switched over from CVS years ago, if you really tried CVS then this
>> was a very old version of GNUstep)
>>
>> And are there any interesting patches on the debian patch system for
>> GNUstep that didn't make it upstream?
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss-gnustep mailing list
> address@hidden
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep
>

--
Gregory Casamento
yahoo/skype: greg_casamento, aol: gjcasa
(240)274-9630 (Cell)

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 10:39:35 +0100
From: "J. Jordan" <address@hidden>
Subject: Re: State of the 'Step
To: Fred Kiefer <address@hidden>
Cc: address@hidden, address@hidden
Message-ID: <address@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format="flowed"

Fred,

Well to be honest nothing worked using the SVN version of
base/back/make/gui, GNUMail, GWorkspace, Terminal all immediatly
segfaulted on launch. I don't really see that as an issue, SVN is
going to be broken from time to time and watching the IRC channel
there is enough action going on that breakage is going to occur.

That being said, GNUstep has been in development for 15 years, are the
current efforts primarily aimed at making it a clone of OSX? I f the
concept is to allow OSX applications to be easily ported to GNUstep
then that is a good plan but if the intent is to develop for OSX
without needing a MAC then I think it is doomed to fail. For me it is
all about the applications. I really like the look and feel of
GNUstep, the concepts of services, bundles and frameworks really make
sense and they are NOT well implemented on the MAC. The time is
perfect for a third FLOSS desktop, KDE has gone off on the Windows
tangent and is gaining many new users but it is loseing power-users in
droves, Gnome is Gnome and will always be Gnome, you either love it or
hate it, I hate it. Verticle menus and a verticle dock courtesy of
Windowmaker make more sense now than ever before considering the
almost universal move to wide-screen monitors. I am not a purist, I
am not saying we should be locked to the OpenStep API of 15 years ago,
there has been a lot of progress in the computer world, wifi,
bluetooth, ACPI, none of tose things were around back then. I like
the square-gray look but recognize that others do not so making things
skinnable makes sense, just allow me to keep the look I like.

Saying that GNUstep is nothing but a development environment is a bit
of a cop-out, like taking 15 years of development. hundreds of
thousands of hours of work and equating it to Visual-Basic. It is
like saying, that you build hammers that can only be used to build
more hammers, never any houses.

Please don't think that I don't appreciate the efforts of the
base/back/gui developers, without them nothing works.

Over the last couple weeks reading the mailing lists including
archives I have gotten the impression that most GNUstep developers
don't really use GNUstep, they don't use Project Center for
development, they don't use GNUMail, they do use Gorm which explains
its comparative advanced state but of course Gorm is not needed for
base/back/make development.

Users need applications, applications require application developers,
application developers need a stable API, 15 years is a long time.

-j

On 2010-02-14 22:34:15 +0100 Fred Kiefer <address@hidden> wrote:

> Great to hear how much GNUstep software you are using. But being a
> developer I am most interested in what didn't work :-(
> Why did you have to abandon your attempt to compile GNUstep from SVN?
> (We switched over from CVS years ago, if you really tried CVS then
> this
> was a very old version of GNUstep)
>
> And are there any interesting patches on the debian patch system for
> GNUstep that didn't make it upstream?
>
> Fred

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 11:03:34 +0100
From: "J. Jordan" <address@hidden>
Subject: Re: State of the 'Step
To: Dirk Olmes <address@hidden>
Cc: address@hidden, address@hidden
Message-ID: <address@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format="flowed"

Dirk,

I did not find any real bugs in Zipper, the one issue I had was that
when you attempt to decompress a tarball with multiple files Zipper
expects you to give it a filename instead of just pointing at the
directory to put the files in. I discovered through trial and error
that if I put an asterisk in for the filename then the OK button will
become enabled. Could probably have fixed that issue myself if Zipper
had a Gorm editable GUI.

Zipper works well and is important enough to me that I installed
Renaissance just so I can use it.

-j

On 2010-02-15 14:34:29 +0100 Dirk Olmes <address@hidden> wrote:

>> Zipper, wish it did not depend on Renissance, put an * in for the
>> filename to gunzip to a directory.
>
> Would you care to elaborate? While chances are low that I'll get rid
> of
> the dependency on Renaissance, I'd like to hear about any bugs in
> Zipper.
>
> -dirk
>

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 11:09:55 +0100
From: Thomas Wawra <address@hidden>
Subject: Problem : openapp: command not found
To: address@hidden
Message-ID:
<address@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hi,

I tried to run an app with the command: openapp in windowmaker on a freebsd
8.0 machine.

Then : openapp: command not found appeared.

Does anyone knows how to solve the problem?

Thx
Thomas
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Message: 6
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 11:29:27 +0100
From: "J. Jordan" <address@hidden>
Subject: Re: State of the 'Step
To: Gregory Casamento <address@hidden>
Cc: address@hidden, Fred Kiefer <address@hidden>,
address@hidden, "Ronald C.F. Antony" <address@hidden>
Message-ID: <address@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format="flowed"

Gregory, Ronald, et al,

The Debian folks actually do a pretty good job of maintaining an
easily installed workable group of GNUstep applications. I don't use
them because I want to modify some of the apps with my own icons and
adjust the UI using Gorm, also want to be able to install updated apps
easily. Debian changes the installation path so mixing and matching
is a hassle.

I think it would be great if we could come up with a system to
identify applications that are known to build and run on a certain
base/back/gui. Perhaps it could be tied to the version of Startup so
that a few weeks before a new version of Startup is released it goes
into to feature lock giving Application developers a chance to certify
their apps against that version of Startup. Perhaps a numbering
scheme like "GWorkspace-0.8.7-cert-0.22.0.tgz" could indicate that
this is the 0.8.7 version of GWorkspace and THIS tarball has been
demonstrated to compile and run on the default installation of
Startup-0.22.0. It would of course be best if more than one person
tests the app. Then Etoile, Debian, BSD, etc. could use those
versions as a starting point to mod for their distributions, of course
passing any bugs and patches upstream. Maybe GAP could host the
certified version of the applications if they were willing.

-j

On 2010-02-15 22:26:33 +0100 Gregory Casamento
<address@hidden> wrote:

> Ronald,
>
> You're preaching to the choir here on this one. Any ideas how to make
> that happen? I would love to get up to date packages everywhere.
>
> Thanks, GC
>
> On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 3:39 AM, Ronald C.F. Antony
> <address@hidden>
> wrote:
>> Even more to the point: unless there are simple GnuStep
>> meta-packages for
>> the major BSD and Linux distributions that are reasonable
>> "click-install-run" easy, most of the effort going into GNUStep is
>> wasted,
>> because except for a few nostalgic exNeXT users and a few
>> developers,
>> nobody is going to use it.
>> I didn't have time to play with GNUStep for ages, but I keep
>> following the
>> development from a distance, but think about it for a moment: if KDE
>> or
>> something like it would require that level of involvement just to
>> get
>> going, do you think it would have the sort of adoption it has now?
>>
>> Ronald
>>
>> On 14 Feb 2010, at 16:34, Fred Kiefer wrote:
>>
>>> Great to hear how much GNUstep software you are using. But being a
>>> developer I am most interested in what didn't work :-(
>>> Why did you have to abandon your attempt to compile GNUstep from
>>> SVN?
>>> (We switched over from CVS years ago, if you really tried CVS then
>>> this
>>> was a very old version of GNUstep)
>>>
>>> And are there any interesting patches on the debian patch system for
>>> GNUstep that didn't make it upstream?
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Discuss-gnustep mailing list
>> address@hidden
>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep
>>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 11:36:39 +0100
From: "J. Jordan" <address@hidden>
Subject: Re: Problem : openapp: command not found
To: Thomas Wawra <address@hidden>
Cc: address@hidden
Message-ID: <address@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format="flowed"

You probably do not need to use the openapp command. I am not a BSD
user but on Linux you can use the name of the application (they have
been installing symlinks for a while). to run GWorkspace just type
GWorkspace, capitalization is important and many GNUstep apps use
CamelCase. You may also try "open GWorkspace" and if all else fails
go inside the directory GWorkspace.app and use ./GWorkspace or
whatever the executable is.

-j

On 2010-02-16 11:09:55 +0100 Thomas Wawra <address@hidden>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I tried to run an app with the command: openapp in windowmaker on a
> freebsd
> 8.0 machine.
>
> Then : openapp: command not found appeared.
>
>
> Does anyone knows how to solve the problem?
>
>
> Thx
> Thomas
> _______________________________________________
> apps-gnustep mailing list
> address@hidden
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-gnustep
>

------------------------------

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End of apps-gnustep Digest, Vol 47, Issue 3
*******************************************

From:	Thomas Wawra
Subject:	Re: apps-gnustep Digest, Vol 47, Issue 3
Date:	Tue, 16 Feb 2010 15:45:45 +0100