Re: [Ghm-discuss] The posh talk does not complain with the policy

[Jim Blandy]

I like this essay ("Dr. Boli" is a fictional character, who writes about himself in the third person):

http://drboli.com/2014/08/17/things-we-simply-cannot-improve-11/

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Dr. Boli has long believed that many of our conflicts today come from a misunderstanding of the difference between approval and tolerance. They are nearly opposite. It is possible for a Baptist to tolerate a Mormon: that is, to welcome him as a neighbor, to vote for him as a candidate for city council, to patronize his business, and to leave him alone to worship as he chooses. But do not ask the Baptist to approve of Mormonism. The Baptist must condemn Mormonism as fiction and heresy, or he ceases to be a Baptist. Likewise, the Baptist has every right to expect tolerance from the Mormon, but it would be shameful indeed if the Mormon were to approve of the Baptist’s religious doctrines: it would be an admission, in fact, that the Mormon’s supposedly fundamental beliefs are nothing more than a sham.

When advocates of a religious system or an alternative family arrangement demand our tolerance, they have Dr. Boli’s heartfelt support. When they demand our approval, however, they are asking for something to which they have no right. Dr. Boli has lived a long life, and he has seen many changes in the world, but he has still not been able to bring himself to approve of Presbyterians.

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My response to Alexandre, when he connects Free software to other values, is that we must extend tolerance, as understood above, to each other for the GHM to be a success. For example, I'm willing to work on Free software with someone who does not approve of my inter-racial marriage, as long as they are tolerant.

On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 2:34 AM, Thien-Thi Nguyen <address@hidden> wrote:

() Thien-Thi Nguyen <ttn-mXXj517/address@hidden>
() Wed, 20 Aug 2014 08:23:08 +0200

   But, this code is buggy.

Silly programmer!

   What is the bug (as discerned from this discussion)?

Why stop at one?!

   What was the fix?  What is the long-term fix if any?

Oh stop this condescending spew, you feckless fool!

OK, i see i have stumbled incompetently into the conversation, and
not really helped it along in any sense, so forget all that noise.

But OTOH...  all that noise has intent on transmit and consequence
on receive, like all communication.  Whatever the intent, it is
possible that the consequence for some reader could be offense.

For example, years ago i would have taken offense at the usage of
C instead of (say) Emacs Lisp, and even now, re-reading the func i
(kind of, sort of, when in a severe mood) take offense at the
syntax error (broken type decl for ‘coolness’).  In both cases,
the offense manifests as the thought "How dare ttn do ACTION!?"
followed by unflattering mutterings, etc.  In both cases, the
offense arises from previous negative experiences (w/ C, w/ public
stupidity) that i expect ttn to be thoughtful about (especially
when communicating w/ ME!) but end up feeling disappointed with.
One or two screwups, no worries; repeated transgressions: GRRRR.

Anyway, i had imagined writing a long exposition reflecting on my
(partial) role as transmitter in this thread, including grotesque
personal memories illustrating how foolish i was (and am wont to
be), but who wants to waste time reading such self-centered crud?

Instead, i take the opportunity to underline the key point made by
Jim Blandy (as i understand it, YMMV, please correct me if i'm not
Getting It), that an effective working relationship requires focus
on core shared values, but that doesn't mean that divisive factors
should be overlooked entirely.  Rather, they should be weighted
less, like sliding the alpha value of an object (in Inkscape) to
less than 100%, but definitely more than 0%.

That's the ideal, which is underspecified.  Which brings us back
to the ideal GHM organization strategy, which was likewise, until
very late, underspecified.  Perhaps ‘cool_meeting_p’ can be
improved in these ways:

 - (maybe :-D) use a Lisp already
 - don't "fail fast" (don't fail at all)
 - for well-behavedness, call a func, and pass context
 - redesign w/ scalar (non-boolean) rv

Generally, i think slack should be considered a core shared value.
I find it easy to conjure (for other GNU hackers), when i keep in
mind how we all suffer from proprietary software and its mindset.

--
Thien-Thi Nguyen
   GPG key: 4C807502
   (if you're human and you know it)
      read my lisp: (responsep (questions 'technical)
                               (not (via 'mailing-list)))
                     => nil