Re: [Fsuk-manchester] The free software movement's dilemma

[Tim Dobson]

On 23/03/13 08:42, Michael Dorrington wrote:
> On 22/03/13 21:41, Tim Dobson wrote:
> > On 22/03/13 13:37, MJ Ray wrote:
> > > Tim Dobson<address@hidden>
> [...]
> > The free software movement has code that powers millions of servers,
> > that runs in space, that has connected millions of people, that has
> > underlined millions of businesses... but we don't talk about it. Perhaps
> > we could start doing? How?
>
> We do talk about it.  As an example, we had a talk about "Free software
> advances around the world" by Bob Ham last year.  We talk about it at
> events as it helps dispel the idea that it couldn't work.

Brutal I know, but, can I count the attendees on both hands?

> > Example 3: Coding as standard for schools.
> > In the UK we've seen massive boosts in young people coding - there's a
> > massive push to get young people not just to be passive consumers but to
> > be creators. This is the proverbial, "everyone plays games, but only a
> > few people know how to make them" or "everyone uses apps on their phone,
> > but how can you personally make one?".
>
> Young people have been coding computers since they were available to
> them.  Early home computers either booted into a programming environment
> or it was accessible from the menu the computer booted into.  This
> encouraged many people to code.  Some of the coding was used to give
> users software freedom but some of it was used to enslave users, divide
> them and make them helpless.
>
> > With the rPi and all that that
> > brings, we have free software, for the first time ever, being pushed
> > into the hands of school children. This is tremendous news - and a
> > massive opportunity. How can we communicate better about this?
>
> The Raspberry Pi also requires non-Free Software to boot and has
> non-free driver for its GFX (they've only freed the shim layer to it) so
> it is not exactly a gleaming beacon of Free Software.  What we need to
> continue to teach is the Free Software philosophy so these coders don't
> go on to use any skills they learn to write non-Free Software or
> Software as a Service (SaaS).
>
> > Find someway you're happy to watch this:
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wVn1TqUfZjc#!
>
> clive http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVn1TqUfZjc#!
>
> > oops, it seems like I meant this link actually:
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKIu9yen5nc
>
> clive http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVn1TqUfZjc#!
>
> > It's 2013. From that video, go back and look at how many people in that
> > video, work for organisations that *aren't* businesses primarily based
> > around free software infrastructure. I count, two, arguably soon, one?
> > In 2013, to have a job, *how can you afford* for it *not* to be free
> > software? how can we communicate that if you're looking for work in
> > today's world, employers are crying out for experience with free
> > software systems? I mean, really, seriously, ASP.net isn't a threat,
> > it's a joke. How can we get that across to people?
>
> Those companies want coders to code their SaaS and non-Free Software.
> These are basically recruiting videos for non-Free Software companies or
> SaaS companies.  As they say in the 2nd video they can't get enough high
> quality coders.  The message the Free Software Movement should be
> focusing on is not "If you learn how to use Free Software then there are
> lots of high paying jobs where you can code SaaS, you'll be enslaving
> users but that's OK" but should be "Write software that respects the
> users' freedom, Free Software, or don't write that software as it is
> unjust.".

Those videos are indeed, full of content you will disagree with.

But you have to agree that they are persuasive right? Why is it persuasive?

If you were to approach promoting free software, from the same angle as 
those people approached "we need more engineers" where would you come to?

The message is to inspire people. It doesn't matter how.

> > Fwiw, here's how that code.org video above got the views:
> > http://techcrunch.com/2013/03/13/how-code-orgs-learn-to-code-video-starring-zuck-and-gates-surpassed-12m-views-in-2-weeks/
> >
> >
> > Basically, I think better things could be done, and the people who do
> > those things, are the ones that will choose which way the future goes.
>
> Tim, I would like you to help out with MFS again, you made a great
> contribution but there is still lots to do in effectively promoting the
> Free Software philosophy.

I don't *want* to help out an organisation that has spent most of 
January, February, and apparently, March, mainly, it would appear, 
discussing whether, or whether-not, Debian is free software and should 
be promoted.

Where there simultaneously hoards of people asking people on the list 
what distro they should use, I might be a little more sympathetic, but 
sadly I feel that people round here seem more interested in pursuing "no 
you can't do that" than "yes, let's do this" dogma.

I wholeheartedly agree there is more that can be done, and I wonder if 
anyone here has some ideas. It'd be a shame to spend the rest of the 
year debating whether a C# bug in Gnome made it non-free.

Anyway, I'm off hiking for a week, back in 7 days.

-Tim