[orca-list] Sluggishness in Orca

[Didier Spaier]

Hi Joanie,

Speaking specifically about espeak-ng and the KLATT variants, the variant could
become an information distinct from the voice, presented by speech-dispatcher in
as specific field, with also its own field in Orca preferences Voice tab.

This could both decrease sluggishness and help users not navigate in a too long
list (although the sluggishness be way smaller using Chromevox in Chromium with
espeak-ng + variants) 

But then, that would probably need a modification of the API and maybe of SSIP
itself, and I am not sure that this be worthwhile?

About SSIP, the more I think to it the less I find an usefulness of the standard
voices aka symbolic voices names output of the LIST VOICES command like e.g.
FEMALE2 for two reasons:
1. Many synthesizers do not offer more than one voice per language, and some
like espeak-ng more for some language that can be mapped one by one by the 3
voices per gender listed (as just examples?) by the SSIP.
2. I can hardly imagine an objective criterion to map a synthesis voice with a
symbolic voice, and I assume that the preferred voice for a given language +
synthesizer combination is largely subjective.

But I digress, sorry.

Best regards,

Didier
 
On 01/11/2018 11:38, Joanmarie Diggs wrote:
> Hi Brandon.
> 
> Yes, that's what I'm talking about. I thought the sluggishness might be
> due to the number of items in the combobox (even when you're not
> interacting with them) because Orca is looking for static text it might
> need to present. I'll have to give it some more thought.
> 
> --joanie
> 
> On 10/30/18 11:37 PM, Brandon Tyson via orca-list wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I can choose among the different languages, meaning that only
>> languages show up, not languages with their individual variants.
>>
>> Is this what you were asking me about? I just want to make sure I'm
>> understanding so we're on the same page.
>>
>> Thanks again for your help,
>>
>> Brandon
>>
>> On 10/30/18, Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs at igalia.com> wrote:
>>> Sorry, to be clear I'm not asking what voice you are using; I'm asking
>>> how many different voices you can choose from if you went into the combo
>>> box containing them all.
>>> --joanie
>>>
>>> On 10/30/18 5:30 PM, Brandon Tyson wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> No, I haven't enabled those. I'm just using the regular voice on
>>>> American English.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Brandon
>>>>
>>>> On 10/30/18, Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs at igalia.com> wrote:
>>>>> Is there any chance you have enabled all the voice variants in
>>>>> speech-dispatcher?
>>>>>
>>>>> --joanie
>>>>>
>>>>> On 10/30/18 4:33 PM, Brandon Tyson wrote:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No. It's immediately after that, where I tabbed from the voice tab to
>>>>>> where Orca syas "Voice Type Settings panel". That lag with switching
>>>>>> tabs was always present for me so I didn't really take note of it as a
>>>>>> bug.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are you able to see where I tabbed from the voice tab to the spot whre
>>>>>> Orca says "voice type settings panel"?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks again for your help with trying to figure this out,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Brandon
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10/30/18, Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs at igalia.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Thanks for sending your debug.out. Looking at the output, there is
>>>>>>> around one second between Orca saying you are on the general page tab
>>>>>>> and Orca saying you're on the voices page tab. Is this one second the
>>>>>>> lag you are referring to?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --joanie
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 10/29/18 8:12 PM, Brandon Tyson wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think I can do this, but there's one thing I'm unsure about.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What folder will the debug file go into?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks again for your help,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Brandon
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 10/29/18, Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs at igalia.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I cannot reproduce this either. Just tried with Orca master. An
>>>>>>>>> audio
>>>>>>>>> recording wouldn't help. If there's a lag, all a recording would
>>>>>>>>> tell
>>>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>>>> is that you aren't making it up; not what the problem is. I need to
>>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>>> what the problem is in order to fix it -- assuming the problem is in
>>>>>>>>> Orca (i.e. as opposed to AT-SPI2, Gtk+, etc.).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A full debug.out can sometimes provide some insight as to where the
>>>>>>>>> failure might be. Information on obtaining one can be found here:
>>>>>>>>> https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca/Debugging. Please send the
>>>>>>>>> result
>>>>>>>>> to me privately or put it in a pastebin-like service as the mailing
>>>>>>>>> list
>>>>>>>>> tends to reject large files.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>>>> --joanie
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 10/29/18 5:06 PM, Didier Spaier wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I am puzzled, as when doing the same thing I observe no lag
>>>>>>>>>> at all, using Orca pulled from git and dated
>>>>>>>>>> Tue Jul 17 12:29:12 2018
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I will upgrade to 3.31 if I can do that without upgrading
>>>>>>>>>> the dependencies and see what I come with
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Didier
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 29/10/2018 16:12, Brandon Tyson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It's when I tab into the voice type settings panel. So, I press
>>>>>>>>>>> caps
>>>>>>>>>>> lock+space, right arrow to voice tab, then press tab, and it lags
>>>>>>>>>>> right there.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> None of the other panels do this.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'll see if I can make an audio recording if it would help.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> But it's definitely noticeable. I do have the tlp battery saving
>>>>>>>>>>> utility installed, but this was the case when I was using Orca
>>>>>>>>>>> 3.28
>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>> well and it did not lag like this, so I'm quite certain it's an
>>>>>>>>>>> issue
>>>>>>>>>>> recently introduced in Orca.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Brandon
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/29/18, Didier Spaier <didier at slint.fr> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> there several settings accessible from the Voice tab.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Which one are you using when you get this lag and in
>>>>>>>>>>>> which context?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I ask because the only case where I get a lag (and I know why)
>>>>>>>>>>>> is when choosing an espeak-ng voice in the Person drop-down
>>>>>>>>>>>> list if the variants are enabled in Speech Dispatcher.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Didier
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 29/10/2018 14:24, Brandon Tyson via orca-list wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can still definitely reproduce the lag in the voice type
>>>>>>>>>>>>> settings
>>>>>>>>>>>>> panel. I just installed Orca master after making sure it was
>>>>>>>>>>>>> completely up to date and it's still happening.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> B
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/29/18, Andy Borka via orca-list <orca-list at gnome.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe this is related to the type of GPU on the laptops? I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noticeable lag that I am aware. Here is my GPU for further
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reference.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lspci
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> | grep VGA 00:02.0  [01;31m [KVGA [K compatible controller:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Intel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Corporation  UHD Graphics 620 (rev 07) 00:13.0 Non- [01;31m
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [KVGA
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [K
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unclassified device: Intel Corporation  Sunrise Point-LP
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Integrated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sensor
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hub (rev 21)] On 10/28/18 10:57 PM, Kyle via orca-list wrote: >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Andy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Borka
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via orca-list aliandika: >> # Best recommendation is to get a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> computer at some point.  > That dependds on how you define
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> First
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all, I personally  > define a better computer as one that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> break
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bank, either at  > purchase time or during a month of daily
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> usage.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> currently have 4 to  > 5 computers running at any one time, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> altogether use about 20%  > of the power used by the monster
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beasty
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that finally died  > earlier this year, and any one of them is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> capable
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being powered by  > a standard USB cell phone battery for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anywhere
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from 6
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 16 hours or  > more. I consider any one of these to be a better
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> computer.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now for the  > most relevant point. A screen reader should run
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smoothly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any  > computer that is capable of running a supported desktop.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work-around for a bug or other performance issue that is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> causing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> screen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reader to lag is not to "get a better computer." I understand
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> computers with less RAM can't be tested by some people because
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have such machines with which to test, but "get a better  >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> computer,"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> read
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more expensive for better, is just not a good  > work-around
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> performance bug that can be traced to the screen  > reader.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> These
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact valid bugs, and shouldn't be dismissed out  > of hand
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hardware on which they were found. > And now to try to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reproduce
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and/or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confirm the bugs. Full disclosure,  > I'm running ArchLinuxARM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Orca
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pulled 2 days ago from git on an  > ODroid C2. This machine has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2GB
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> RAM,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a quad-core A53 64-bit  > processor running at 1.5GHz, and a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 128GB
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SSD
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a connected 3TB USB  > spinning hard disk. The OS runs from the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SSD,and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> includes MATE 1.20.3. > Brandon Tyson via orca-list aliandika:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> #
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Orca 3.29, and continuing into at least Orca 3.30.0, when you >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> #
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tab
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the voice type settings panel in Orca's preferences dialog on >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> #
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> voice
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tab, there is a very noticeable lag that was not present > #
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Orca does not announce anything else until it recovers > # from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lag.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Could this possibly be fixed? I do notice a slight lag, less
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> second, as soon as the preferences window opens, but the voice
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tab
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> running smoothly here. So this one is either not affecting me,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> been fixed. I can't tell for sure either way. > # 2. Orca
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lag when reading through websites in Firefox. > # When I up and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> down
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> arrow,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and there's a lot of links, images, entries, > # anything other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simple text for the most part, it takes Orca > # some time to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> read,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is especially a lot more noticeable on > # lower end systems. >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Confirmed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> However, I have usually attributed this slowness to Firefox  >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Orca, as much of the same lag is present on many of the  > same
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> websites
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Seamonkey and Firefox, but Chromium doesn't lag on  > most of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> websites. It's definitely worth looking into, but  > may be a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mozilla
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bug
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rather than an Orca bug. Unfortunately there  > really isn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> screen reader that I can use to help me  > determine where the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> problem
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> may
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be. The best site to use for testing  > that doesn't require
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> login
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information is > https://figgers.com/ > which is practically
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unusable
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> both Firefox and Seamonkey with Orca,  > but seems to work
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quite
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> well
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chromium. > # 3. For me, in general, to get Orca to run well I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a super > # high end system. Another system a friend of mine
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> using
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Orca > # 3.28.0, and Ubuntu Mate 18.04 with 1 gb of RAM and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Orca
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> extremely > # sluggish. When they change Orca settings and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> press
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "OK"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> button, > # Orca says "screen reader settings reloaded", but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> takes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good 5 > # to 7 seconds before it announces the Desktop. >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Confirmed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sluggishness isn't limited to changing settings and  >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reloading
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> using
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK button however. I find that it can take  > anywhere from 0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 6
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seconds to announce either the desktop or  > the currently
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> focused
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> window
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I toggle Orca off and then back on.  > Unfortunately, this one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 100%
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reproduceable. It's rather hit or  > miss here, happening maybe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 60
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 70%
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the time, and as I said, it's  > quite variable in nature. > #
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> navigating in general, if you don't have a super high end > #
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Orca
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems to lag, for example, even when going through the > # alt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> f1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> menus
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ubuntu Mate. > Confirmed, although the lag isn't very long
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> here,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0.2 to  > maybe 0.3 seconds at most as I navigate through the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> menu.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Looks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like  > some of this could be related to accessible event
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> floods,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not  > sure. Most of the time, I don't notice this when
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> navigating,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yes,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  > I do see it in the MATE menu system, probably more in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> main
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> applications menu than any other menu or in the applications
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> submenus.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Again, in the places where I see it, it's really not extremely
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sluggish,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just a bit noticeable. So I will say it's confirmed here. It  >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appear to corolate with CPU speed or the number of threads  >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> available,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't notice the sluggishness in the menu so much on  > my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> XU4,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4 32-bit A15 cores running at 2GHz and 4 32-bit A7  > cores
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> running
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1.4GHz, and also has 2GB of RAM. I hope this  > information can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> help
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> track
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> down some of these sluggish areas at least  > a little. >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Imetumwa
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kutoka
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Orca > _______________________________________________ >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> orca-list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mailing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list > orca-list at gnome.org >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list > Orca wiki:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca > Orca documentation:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/ > GNOME Universal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Access
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guide:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html > Log
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bugs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ orca-list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mailing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> orca-list at gnome.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Orca
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca Orca documentation:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/ GNOME Universal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Access
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guide:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html Log
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bugs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> orca-list mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> orca-list at gnome.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
>>>>>>>>>>>> Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
>>>>>>>>>>>> Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
>>>>>>>>>>>> GNOME Universal Access guide:
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
>>>>>>>>>>>> Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> orca-list mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> orca-list at gnome.org
>>>>>>>>>> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
>>>>>>>>>> Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
>>>>>>>>>> Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
>>>>>>>>>> GNOME Universal Access guide:
>>>>>>>>>> https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
>>>>>>>>>> Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> orca-list mailing list
> orca-list at gnome.org
> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> GNOME Universal Access guide: 
> https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
> 
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