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[paparazzi-devel] Replies to posts on the digest
[paparazzi-devel] Replies to posts on the digest
Tue, 04 May 2004 20:59:52 +1200
I just thought I would give you an update on my UAV project: I am
designing a Ground-station application at the moment, until I get my
budgeting sorted out, and also things are really busy in the rest of my
life at the moment, so I don't have time to do hardware stuff.
The ground station is being written in QT/Free, from www.trolltech.com.
This allows it to be multi-platform and run on Mac OS X (my operating
system of choice) as well as linux/unix (or with a license, on M$
I would have built on top of an existing ground station, like the
paparazzi one, but its inconvenient to use GTK and X11 on Mac OS,
whereas QT runs natively (without an X server etc, straight on to the
Mac OS X Aqua engine). I don't particularly like Java GUIs but that was
the other main possibility.
I am just learning C++ and QT at the moment, but I hope to have a beta
suitable for consumption in a month or two. I have got to the point
where the GUI is laid out (in QT Designer), and most of the 'glue' code
to run the GUI is working (sortof :), and I am writing the 'back end',
down links etc.
At some point, I also want to build a link to JSBsim or FlightGear into
it, for flight visualization when its in the air, and as a hardware in
the loop simulator, when its on the ground. I am a little worried about
how well JSBsim will handle simulating such a small plane, an low
speeds and low reynolds numbers, and also how i will create and
calibrate a flight model for it. Any ideas?
Sorry for the confusion Antoine, the post was sortof addressed to
Steve, but seeing as you suggested that I keep all communications that
might be relevant to others on the mailing list, I did :)
Hugo Vincent wrote:
I am working on a UAV project too; I haven't made a website yet, but
written and collected a fair bit of material in the attached PDF
) -- but I am not sure how the mailing list system will handle it.
in a state of change, so ignore anything that looks unfinished or
Please feel free to use the ideas in it, and consider releasing your
a GPL type license so we can all share
It's very interesting, but i think you'd better not send such big
the list. You could put it somewhere on the the web and send a link to
OK, that would be great, would it be possible for me to get a login to
the CVS to that directory (I am not sure if you can do that?) so I can
change it with out you having to update the CVS manually?
If you like, we can host your document in the paparazzi CVS at
I am already aware about your plane. I am still deciding if it will
suit my needs, which it probably will, in which case i'll buy one
I have just looked at your website -- cool! I would like to know more
airframe: did you design it? The specifications you came up with --
they generated/based on?
I have been playing around with SolidWorks/COSMOSworks (3D Cad and
plugin that does stresses etc, and aerodynamics), and XFoil (GPL
tool and simulator) trying to design an airframe, and am getting
down in it all! I must say, just from looking at your website, that
you sort of
just got out the tools and started making it, with out really doing
and calculations (no offense, I wish I could do that).
which airframe are you talking about ? The twinstar is a ready to fly
multiplex. We choosed this plane because it is well suited to our need
flies well, doesn't need a runway, is very "heavy duty" and very
mounted motors have the advantage of protecting propellers during
leaving the nose of the aircraft free (for the camera..)
Also, for the airframe, especially the wings and tail-plane surfaces,
want to investigate a technique called vacuum bagging, where you
foam with all the various composites, add an anti-stick film, put it
sealed bag, and apply around 4-8 psi of vacuum pressure.
Alternatively you can
use the parts of the foam that you cut the wings from ("negatives" or
something, sometimes called shucks), put your layed-up wing in them
appropriate anti-stick protection) and puts weights on the shucks to
pressure to the lay-up, increasing strength of the bond to the foam,
and as a
result, the strength of the whole wing, and allowing less epoxy to be
The maxi kiool was build using this technique. We have almost
airframe, due to its fragility. Motor gears are not very well suited
Date: 30 Apr 2004 20:48:12 +0200
From: Antoine Drouin <address@hidden>
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] (no subject)
Hmm, I am sure this works, but it doesn't sound like its the "optimal"
solution. A pitot tube is much more elegant, more accurate, more
reliable (no moving parts), is there a reason you haven't tried this.
You can make one easily, with another pressure sensor attached to a
tube facing forward at the front of the plane (in 'ram' air). There is
a simply formula, but i can't remember it (something like V = 1/2 *
[density of static air (dependent on altitude)] * [ram air pressure
from pitot tube]^2 ).
We have build a sensor with a tiny propeller driving a cell phone
We amplify and measure the analog voltage produced. The sensor works
fine for the small speeds we fly (8-15m/s).
We have done nothing yet with these data.
Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 18:12:08 +0200 (MEST)
Subject: [Paparazzi-devel] conceptual design proposal (without IR
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
The planned sensors are:
absolute pressure sensor TBD.
cheap and small condensator microphones to measure the wind speed TBD.
IR receivers 41 KH or similar on all sides grouped with
IR senders. OPTIONAL (formation flight and optical high speed comms
cheap laser pointers)
Rain sensor SUGGESTED (pbc)
Radioactivity sensor OPTIONAL (led)
ELF sensor SUGGESTED (can be merged with motor)
TEMPEST sensor (high speed fft on a MCU required). OPTIONAL (can be
with elf sensor)
Current sensors for the follow items:
- Overall current
- Servos. TBD.
- Motors TBD
- Goldcap TBD
- high power/current electronic
- thermal wind speed meter OPTIONAL
RPM using a transistor in order to measure the RPM of the single
This can be used to calibrate the wind sensors.
- reset or power interrupt devices OPTIONAL
- battery switch for optional reserve battery using step up
- laser pointer OPTIONAL
Storage for black box:
MMC card. (SPI interface)
- model plane for research and testing.
This need porting higher payload and must be a autonomy of minimal
minutes at reasonable costs.
- model plane for final implementation.
- cooling of battery inside the foam wings, i don't want using
foil because it's reflects radar very well.
The agreed altitude for a model plane is between 100 and 300 foot in
the country i live. It's depends of the interpretation from the law
I simple don't want attract the attention, if i cross in the
of the radar height (150 foot).
- I need the fasttrak firmware for GPS ? What is the cost ?
- How to optain the firmware for approximative 38K baud instead of
baud in order to got the 10 HZ update feature.
- I need dgps ?
It's possible to merge the two project or to produce usable subsytems
both the projects.
As attachement, i sent the planned overall structure of the SW.
I plann to use fuzzy logic or a rule system or neuronal logic or
It's highly possible, that the resulting algorithm use a combination of
the previosly mentioned methods.
Currently, fuzzy logic seems the simplest and is the preferred for the
This sounds very cool, although, why are you so concerned about radar
stealth, TEMPEST, radioactivity etc? You make it sound A LOT like a
military/war UAV! Although I am not really qualified to say, I don't
think a military UAV should use free GPL'd work -- its use should be
peaceful. What do the project leaders think about this??
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