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Re: Octave 3.6.1 mingw for windows - updated
From: |
Lukas Reichlin |
Subject: |
Re: Octave 3.6.1 mingw for windows - updated |
Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2012 18:01:58 +0200 |
On 05.04.2012, at 17:09, Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso wrote:
> On 5 April 2012 10:59, Lukas Reichlin <address@hidden> wrote:
>>
>> On 05.04.2012, at 15:34, Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso wrote:
>>
>>> 2012/4/5 Sébastien Villemot <address@hidden>:
>>>> During the installation it is possible to only install Octave without
>>>> the Octave-Forge packages (by unclicking a checkbox).
>>>
>>> People are basically illiterate. They don't care what they're
>>> installing or why. They just want "everything". They need a little
>>> guidance here.
>>>
>>>> From my point of view, if the user installs the Octave-Forge packages,
>>>> he expects them to be autoloaded. At least this is the policy that we
>>>> adopted in the Debian Octave Group.
>>>
>>> Debian users have a habit to pay attention to what they're installing
>>> and will complain loudly if packages they don't recognise are being
>>> installed. Windows users have the habit of
>>> "next->next->I-agree->next->next->done".
>>>
>>> - Jordi G. H.
>>
>> Jordi, I don't quite get it. Why do you want users to type "pkg
>> load" every time if they chose to install the packages?
>
> No, they can add it to their .octaverc. I think it's important for
> another reason: educate user that some functions are in packages and
> some are in core. And also, to educate users that there is such a
> thing as an .octaverc, in which they can add their customisations.
I don't like the idea of "educating" the users ;-)
>
> If Windows had a nicer packaging infrastructure, it would be nice if
> you could say "pkg install package" and the package would install
> forever. Sadly, it doesn't, and "pkg install" is essentially useless
> in Windows, so I think "pkg load" (and perhaps patching pkg load to
> add that command to .octaverc?) is the next best thing.
OK, at least "pkg install -forge control" used to work as expected on MinGW.
>
>> And you don't have to load matlab toolboxes either.
>
> No, but you have to buy them. It's not unusual for people to write
> Matlab scripts without using certain functions from some toolbox
> because they want to make sure their users can use them regardless of
> which Matlab toolboxes they may have installed.
>
> I think in this case, trying to make things too convenient for users
> doesn't expose them to the intricacies of the underlying problems, so
> they end up with other problems, such as for example, reporting OF
> problems to the wrong place, or being unaware of the relative quality
> and standards of core Octave and its packages.
>
> - Jordi G. H.
Aaah, the Octave Core vs. Octave Forge story. I think we should group OF
packages into different classes as the long list on
http://octave.sourceforge.net/packages.php
is rather confusing. For example, we could use three classes:
- main: only about a dozen of packages. The most popular ones, of general use.
High quality. Tested and actively developed/maintained. What the average user
needs, see debian priorities below.
- extra: the less common ones. narrow scope, less tested, under construction, …
- legacy: unmaintained, outdated and fragile ones, like the "symbolic" package.
We had similar discussions about priorities for debian packaging:
http://www.mail-archive.com/address@hidden/msg06842.html
Then we could use these OF classes for the OF website and the installers. What
do you think?
Lukas
PS: Sorry for hijacking the thread.
- Re: Octave 3.6.1 mingw for windows - updated, (continued)
- Re: Octave 3.6.1 mingw for windows - updated, Carnë Draug, 2012/04/05
- Re: Octave 3.6.1 mingw for windows - updated, Przemek Klosowski, 2012/04/05
- Re: Octave 3.6.1 mingw for windows - updated, Lukas Reichlin, 2012/04/05
- Re: Octave 3.6.1 mingw for windows - updated, Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso, 2012/04/05
- Re: Octave 3.6.1 mingw for windows - updated, marco atzeri, 2012/04/05
- Re: Octave 3.6.1 mingw for windows - updated, PhilipNienhuis, 2012/04/05
- Re: Octave 3.6.1 mingw for windows - updated,
Lukas Reichlin <=
- Re: Octave 3.6.1 mingw for windows - updated, John Frain, 2012/04/05
- Re: Octave 3.6.1 mingw for windows - updated, PhilipNienhuis, 2012/04/05
- Re: Octave 3.6.1 mingw for windows - updated, Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso, 2012/04/05
- Re: Octave 3.6.1 mingw for windows - updated, Philip Nienhuis, 2012/04/05
- Re: Octave 3.6.1 mingw for windows - updated, Carnë Draug, 2012/04/05