Re: String at the bottom of a cover page without using \markup

[Paolo Prete]

The vertical-fill method does exactly what I asked in the very first post. But soon after, thanks to this thread, I saw some limitations in a pure-LilyPond approach, which I did not know: therefore I stated, *before* you made this example: 

"I well know, and stated several times, that LilyPond has the power of a nuclear reactor.

And I'm sure too that with customizations you can do whatever you want in the cover/introductory pages.

What I meant is different. For these pages I don't want to add or expose logic. "

As you can see, your example adds a hard customization for a task that should be easy in creating cover pages. If I sum all the effort for doing such easy things on cover pages I realize that it is better to have an easier and faster tool for creating such pages, instead of growing the code with work-arounds, custom functions etc. In addition, you would not have to bother in case you are stuck in similar future situations, nor it's required that you learn low-level LP.  

Please note that you wrote the example *after* I decided to use this alternative, and after I stated that in my case the problem was already solved. 

"From what I see, your approach is a low-level approach, therefore it should be wrapped (so to shorten the code and improve the readibility). But wrapping has some other disadvantages, as I explained later. Then I concluded that, in my general case, the best thing is to use multiple tools (which has disadvantages too, of course, but I consider it a better compromise) "

That said, the thread continued because it highlighted interesting points that deserved to be discussed. What I want to say is that you already gave me the solution of the problem, indirectly, by making me learn how the stuff works. 

Best,

Paolo

On Sat, Dec 18, 2021 at 10:15 PM Valentin Petzel <valentin@petzel.at> wrote:

Hello Paolo,

Yes, that makes sense. This was never meant as some full working
implementation but just as an example.

Still, what problems did you have with the vertical-fill method? This should
work quite well for cover pages and such.

Cheers,
Valentin

Am Samstag, 18. Dezember 2021, 21:13:57 CET schrieb Paolo Prete:
> Hello Valentin
>
> On Sat, Dec 18, 2021 at 7:35 PM Valentin Petzel <valentin@petzel.at> wrote:
> > Hello Paolo,
> >
> > That is not exactly true. The first time you used the word template was
> > quite
> > some way in when you assumed that you’d need to set the markups
> > differently
> > for any possible configuration (which is where I answered you’d be
> > underestimating Lilypond as you do NOT need to do that. My example showed
> > a
> > way you can have ONE header/footer markup producing different results on
> > global flags (these could also be put inside the header block or a paper
> > block), basically showing you how to create a simple interface like you
> > wanted
> > (although by that point it was not clear to me that you wanted that)).
>
> ... but, if you pick up again that message, you will find that the
> interface you created did not meet my specs. Here are my words:
> "I should have the flexibility to switch on the fly from one choice to
> another, which is expected in a header + body + footer template, therefore
> this template should not be polluted by mixing body with footer.". In fact
> you redefined the template without wrapping it. Then, it should not be
> considered a template with the flexibilty to switch from one choice to
> another, but rather a customization of a template that doesn't offer that
> easy switch. Even if you do the easy switch as a result, this can't be used
> as template because you did not wrap it. And this has disadvantages, as I
> tried to explain, adding that I could wrap it in my own project, so to meet
> my specs, but this procedure would have disadvantages too.
>
> > The technical problem here is that there is no clear border between body,
> > header and footer (unless we are taking full control of the page, for
> > which I
> > gave you a way to do this without footer (as I said before, I did not
> > realize
> > we were talking about cover pages before that, even though it says so in
> > the
> > subject. I was expecting a first page with music on it)).
>
> This is not true, and this is what I added in my explanation later. There
> is such clear border: it is given by the template defaults. These are the
> rules for body, header and footer. When you decide to modify these rules,
> then you are creating a grey area, then it is needed to wrap your
> customization, so to create new defaults (and, consequently, a new
> template). When you violate this rule by modifying two instances of two
> implementations (footer and header) of an interface, instead of  creating
> new instances, then you are doing a hack which makes the code even dirtier,
> then a wrap is doubly needed. In the example we are discussing, the motto
> is logically part of the body. Then, given that the LP template doesn't
> meet this specs, a new template should be created by wrapping a
> customization of the original one. Then you have clean code and you can
> have new clear borders. As you can see, this is a tedious procedure, and
> this is why I prefer to use alternative tools.
>
> > But let’s be specific about the problem: So your aim here is to create
> > templates? Or do just want to create a cover page with something at the
> > bottom?
>
> my aim (which is not what I asked at the beginning of the thread, though)
> is not to create templates (I don't have time for now), but to have a way
> to have them for the next future. And I got this result with the
> alternative tool. And, of course, with the help of your (and Aaron's)
> examples, which made me understand how the things works in LP. Therefore
> you are wrong when you feel unmotivated for the things you read. You should
> consider the opposite...
> Please note that there's nothing strange in using an alternative tool for
> this. And I would leave the LP code totally untouched for these tasks.
> IMHO  LP doesn't need to have such sophisticated tools for cover pages, as
> Jean wished. It would be totally beyond its scope. Therefore I find
> ridiculous (and pathetic at the same time) when my words appear as a blame.
>
> Best,
> Paolo