Re: install frescoba 2.18.2 in Ubuntu

[Noeck]

Hi Bernard

>> http://lilypond.org/unix.html before? There is a small "Install"
>> section. What was missing for you?
>>
>> Yes I saw that, but it was missing install from shell. I really
>> prefer using apt-get because I have bad experience  with download
>> and install because of the depencies hell.

Generally speaking, yes. But I never had problems with the lilypond
shell installer. I agree an up-to-date ppa would be an interesting
option for Ubuntu users. (I use one for other software.) But as always,
someone would have to do it and look after it.

>> So the message should be "do not us use apt-get because you will
>> retrieve probably version 2.16.2"

No, because a) there is nothing wrong with getting 2.16 b) you can still
add newer versions, c) which version you get depends on your
distribution. Ubuntu 14.04 is almost 2 years old, so yes the packaged
software is old, too. For instance, Ubuntu 15.10 contains LP 2.18.2.

>> - Should it mention that you can have several versions installed in
>>   parallel?
>>
>> Yes it sure does. Because I had version 2.16.2 was installed and
>> Frescobaldi urge to uninstall previous version of python-ly because
>> it can cause inconsistency. Unfortunately I can not recall where I
>> found that info.

This is very unclear. Frescobaldi versions depend on versions of
python-ly. But neither the version number of Frescobaldi nor the version
number of python-ly are related to the version of lilypond.
So, as I mentioned you can just install Frescobaldi from the package
repositories and it should come with the correct python-ly. python-ly is
not lilypond.

>> - Was only the Frescobaldi settings part new to you? Should it be
>>   mentioned?
>>
>> Yes it would. Installing Frescobaldi does install Lilypond, which is
>> very convenient, if it was the correct Lilypond version.

There is nothing wrong with this Lilypond version. It is just older than
necessary. In principle you can use any LP version with any Frescobaldi
version.

>> Frescobaldi should mention only the old version is installed, and go
>> the the Lilypond website for info how to install Lilypond 2.18.2.

The Frescobaldi version in Ubuntu is not new either so why should it
know about newer Lilypond versions? It just uses what you provide.

> Earlier in the thread, Joram points
> to http://lilypond.org/unix.html and implies that he has something to
> do with its maintenance. (See below.) 

Not really. I am familiar enough with some maintainers and developers,
that I dare to say that good suggestions on how to improve the
documentation have chances to get in there. I could propose a patch if
we find sensible improvements to the documentation. But so far this
discussion produced more confusion than tangible proposals – at least
from what I understood.

What remains for me: A complete installation guide covering up-to-date
versions of both Frescobaldi and Lilypond would be helpful (cf. PS).

Cheers,
Joram



PS: I know that the following statement will not reach consensus here,
so I am not sure if it makes sense to write it. But privately, this is
how I see it: Most (new) users are probably not used to understand how
different components of their software is related, they view it as one
single system. E.g. Sibelius is the program to create, view, edit, print
sib files. For non-programmers it needs some insights that   Frescobaldi
(GUI and IDE) is separated from Lilypond ("engine"). This is why when
talking about Lilypond I sell it as Frescobaldi and only mention later
that using other editors and pdf viewers is possible.
Choice is good, clear recommendations are even more important for
newcomers. IMHO.