Re: Failure (Re: How to use octave-forge?)

[Joe Koski]

After spending a month trying to install various octave+octave-forge
combinations in four different ways, I have many opinions, and much
experience. First, some general comments.

OS X, although based on UNIX, has been somewhat modified by Apple to build
their own operating system. The "Software Developers Kit" or "Developers
Tools" that users are provided to compile the GNU-based applications, have
quirks that have often led me to the "error exit(1)" from make files. Many
problems were my own ignorance, but others were caused by the gcc compiler
configuration that is "standard" on the Apple system with the SDK. Maybe we
need to get away from the SDK approach and have a gcc compiler configuration
for users separate from what system developers use, and configured like the
compilers in Linux. That way maybe users can control what is in /usr/bin. We
could then confidently do the usual "./configure, make, make install" ritual
that is done on Linux boxes. This is all beside the point, but perhaps
relevant.

Fink is another case. The Fink interface is confusing. The new user doesn't
know, for example, that there are stable and unstable forks, binary
distributions from dselect and build from source options (fink install). I
still haven't figured out Fink commander, but then I haven't done due
diligence reading the Fink manual, either. The fink-beginner list tries to
help, but inevitably, they are swamped by a high volume of repetitive
questions. Fink also installs (with some good reasons) into different
locations (/sw) than the "standard" UNIX /usr/local directories. In summary,
the average student user that is the target audience for octave would, in my
opinion, be confused by Fink. Server congestion has also been a problem from
time to time with Fink, and I don't like competing with the games/gimp/open
office crowd for software.

I've had problems with the DarwinPorts ./configure file so I haven't been
able to install it. Some Tcl conflicts led the ./configure to hang, and I
still don't have the correct Tcl configuration so that I can install
DarwinPorts. It seems to install applications more like other UNIX systems,
so maybe they're on to something. Just looking at Darwinports, it seems more
straight-forward than Fink, but I haven't used it.

A binary of octave-2.1.50 that I got from the HPC web site
(http://hpc.sourceforge.net/) worked well until I built octave-forge (with
Per's help) from source. That particular build of octave seems to not like
shared libraries well, and history stopped working. I saw a thread about the
identical problem on a Linux box discussed on the octave help list. This
particular problem may be platform independent.

Finally, my build of the octave-2.1.50 from the SourceForge site completed
successfully, but when I tried to launch the octave binary it crashed.
Repeated builds with different Fortran compilers, etc. led to the same
broken binary. Who knows what that problem is, but it took about an hour for
each build process to complete, so it was a big time waster.

My summary:  

Yes, installing octave+octave-forge from binary would be nice, and a
preferred approach, especially for students. That could also insure that
octave and octave-forge are compatible on the Mac. Second in preference (to
me) would be well adapted make files that worked well on Macs. I also prefer
installing into /usr/local, but that's just old habits - if an installation
works, it works. A third preference would be a CVS system like DarwinPorts
that builds and installs applications in a consistent manner. Last would be
an interface like Fink's that intimidates and confuses the new user.

As a new, but older, user of octave on the Mac, I was pleased to find it and
can see its potential. Yes, something needs to be done to make it easier for
the new Mac user to get.

Joe Koski



on 12/23/03 7:48 PM, Paul Kienzle at address@hidden wrote:

> Neither fink nor darwin ports seem to be providing up to date binaries
> for octave+octave-forge which are easy to install on 10.2 and 10.3.
> 
> Is this a problem with the fink/ports infrastructure?  Or is it a
> matter of
> there being no one doing the wonderful work that Dirk Eddelbuettel
> does for Octave+octave-forge in Debian?
> 
> If it is a lack of infrastructure, would it be reasonable to put
> together a
> binary package like we have for Windows and distribute it from the
> octave-forge site?  My inclination is to use the Ports install path, or
> possibly opt/loctave.
> 
> Any thoughts?
> 
> Paul Kienzle
> address@hidden
> 
> On Dec 23, 2003, at 5:40 PM, Vic Norton wrote:
> 
>> Hi Per,
>> 
>> I have downloaded "octave-2.1.50" and configured with
>> 
>>    octave-2.1.50$ ./configure --prefix=/opt/local
>> 
>> However, there is no config.h file in the "octave-2.1.50" directory.
>> The only occurrence of "HAVE_DYLD_API" in the directory is in
>> 
>>    ~/Download/octave-2.1.50/liboctave/oct-shlib.cc
>> 
>> where it appears 3 times.
>> 
>> I see your "#define HAVE_DYLD_API 1" instruction in the
>> "INSTALL.MacOSX" file in the "octave-forge-2003.06.02" distribution.
>> That advice applies to the  "octave-2.1.48" distribution. It's for Mac
>> OSX 10.2.x.
>> 
>> I am running Mac OSX 10.3.2. Maybe the --enable-shared and --enable-dl
>> options will work on this later version of OS X. On the other hand,
>> maybe I need to install octave-2.1.48 so I'll have an config.h file to
>> tweak. Are there any Panther people out there that know the right
>> approach?
>> 
>> This whole thing is a mess. I'm a real Unix novice, and these Mac OS X
>> incompatibilities don't help.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Vic
>> 
>> At 10:11 PM +0100 12/23/03, Per Persson wrote:
>>> On Dec 23, 2003, at 21:51, Dmitri A. Sergatskov wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Vic Norton wrote:
>>>>> Thanks for all the advice about installing octave-forge functions.
>>>>> I am
>>>>> sorry to report that my installation efforts have not met with
>>>>> success.
>>>>> My octave 2.1.50 has no trouble reading newly installed octave-forge
>>>>> m-files, but it cannot execute any oct-files.
>>>> 
>>>> I think for octave-forge to work your octave had to be compiled
>>>> with --enable-shared --enable-dl options.
>>> 
>>> No, not on Mac OS X :-(
>>> 
>>> The --enable-shared --enable-dl options won't work on OS X. The
>>> current work-around is to edit config.h _after_ configuring (w/o
>>> --enable-shared --enable-dl options) so that the line: /* #undef
>>> HAVE_DYLD_API */ instead reads: #define HAVE_DYLD_API 1
>>> 
>>> This will (should) let you build and run .oct files.
>>> 
>>> /Per
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -------------------------------------------------------------
>> Octave is freely available under the terms of the GNU GPL.
>> 
>> Octave's home on the web:  http://www.octave.org
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> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> Octave is freely available under the terms of the GNU GPL.
> 
> Octave's home on the web:  http://www.octave.org
> How to fund new projects:  http://www.octave.org/funding.html
> Subscription information:  http://www.octave.org/archive.html
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-------------------------------------------------------------
Octave is freely available under the terms of the GNU GPL.

Octave's home on the web:  http://www.octave.org
How to fund new projects:  http://www.octave.org/funding.html
Subscription information:  http://www.octave.org/archive.html
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