Re: Guix Bluetooth Headset

[Ekaitz Zarraga]

Well... I don't think both goals are incompatible.
I'm totally fine with Guix being Free Software only distribution and I 
encourage the project to keep that path because I strongly believe it's the 
right thing to do.
That doesn't mean the user needs to have a deep understanding of the software 
layers involved in a system. I'd say it's unrelated.

The issues with the device compatibility is a different story that should get 
better at some point, and there's NonGuix out there too that can solve some 
issues for those users that can accept binary blobs.

The problem with the bluetooth for instance it's not a matter of hardware 
support neither. I have the drivers for the device installed, but I have no 
clue about how to configure the software to make all the different pieces work 
together. That's something we can improve without compromising the Ethical 
values of Guix, which are, in my opinion unquestionable at this point.

This case of the sound system is a clear example of a software stack that have 
been too complex for ages in every single distro but distros managed well 
enough to hide that complexity from the users (because they were no actual 
reasons to expose it) and Guix didn't manage to do it that well. I'm 100% sure 
there's a working configuration we can already use, but it's *really* hard to 
find it.
That discoverability issue is what carries most of the friction with the user 
in Guix. Of course, in my opinion.

Hope we can use this thread to improve this point with some documentation, code 
or packages. I'm open to help in any of those areas.

Best,
Ekaitz



‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On Saturday, September 26, 2020 3:17 PM, Yasuaki Kudo <yasu@yasuaki.com> wrote:

> I totally agree - while diverging a little from my original bluetooth 
> question, it seems that we need to have an "unofficial" "Guix-Compromised" 
> downstream distribution.
>
> The frustrating thing is that with the zero-tolerance attitude of Guix 
> project (while well-meaning and I applaud such high standards), it is 
> difficult to even discuss such things as tactical abandonment of 
> libre-software purity in order dramatically improve the actual end-user 
> experience.
>
> We only effectively discuss delivering the best possible user-experience 
> (while ignoring the ethical questions) when we can employ all possible means 
> including using bad software form companies we dislike.
>
> Having said that, I think the Guix' stance is actually very defendable and we 
> would be barking up the wrong tree to complain to the Guix team.
>
> This is why I think we need a proper downstream distribution of Guix with the 
> goal of delivering the best Linux experience albeit with perhaps degraded 
> software purity. 😅
>
> -Yasu
>
> > On Sep 26, 2020, at 21:03, Ekaitz Zarraga ekaitz@elenq.tech wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > I'm a full-time Guix user but I don't really think I have average 
> > requirements for my computing.
> > I tried to connect to a bluetooth speaker once, there's a thread in the 
> > mailing lists about it... I didn't manage to do it.
> > I tried through Gnome first, and it literally doesn't show any Bluetooth 
> > device. I was able to use some bluetooth controllers like Bluez or so and I 
> > managed to pair the device (and Gnome still didn't recognize the bluetooth 
> > but did recognize the pairing, amazing stuff), but I didn't manage to make 
> > the music sound through it.
> > I'd like to help more but this is what I got.
> > This is the kind of things that are discouraging. Guix is a good thing but 
> > the user experience is sometimes plainly horrible, for stuff that should be 
> > simple.
> >
> > > I am curious how many people actually use Guix for the user-facing 
> > > computers - do people use Ubuntu something and use Guix as a mere package 
> > > manager or install Guix on a headless (virtual) computer and remotely use 
> > > it?
> >
> > I am curious too, because I only use Guix for the only computer I own, but 
> > I'm not sure if it could be reasonable for anyone else, mostly because 
> > sometimes Guix users are supposed to know too much about internal software 
> > layers and there's no help about those times where you don't know enough.
> > This bluetooth case is very accurate case to explain this kind of 
> > situation. Sound has a very weird software stack, if you combine it with 
> > bluetooth everything gets complicated. If you don't know about it you are 
> > in trouble.
> > Sorry for the depressing thoughts, but this is how I feel.
> > I hope you find your way to make it work and share it.
> > Best,
> > Ekaitz
> > ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
> >
> > > On Friday, September 25, 2020 4:16 PM, Yasuaki Kudo yasu@yasuaki.com 
> > > wrote:
> > > Hi Joshua,
> > > My bluetooth USB device itself seems to be recognized by the kernel but 
> > > there is this whole layers of software I don't understand - (when I used 
> > > to use NixOS on the same hardware, it worked - I think it was a 
> > > combination of something called PulseAudi and Bluetooth)
> > > So I just want to know whether someone actually has a working 
> > > configuration I can just copy.
> > > I am curious how many people actually use Guix for the user-facing 
> > > computers - do people use Ubuntu something and use Guix as a mere package 
> > > manager or install Guix on a headless (virtual) computer and remotely use 
> > > it?
> > > Cheers,
> > > Yasu
> > >
> > > > > On Sep 25, 2020, at 21:53, Joshua Branson jbranso@dismail.de wrote:
> > > > > Have you tried looking at h-node.org?
> > > > > That will give you some hints at what hardware works well with
> > > > > GNU/Linux.
> > > > > I personally have a RIG headset with integrated microphone. It was a
> > > > > bit of an impulse buy. It doesn't use bluetooth. It has one chord. I
> > > > > can use it to record my voice, or listen to music. But I can't seem to
> > > > > do both at the same time with it. :(
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Joshua
> > > > > --
> > > > > Joshua Branson
> > > > > Sent from Emacs and Gnus
> > > > > https://gnucode.me