Re: Reminder to remain civil

[Quiliro Ordóñez]

El 2019-10-14 14:52, Tonton escribió:
> Quiliro, this is not about censorship. No one is taking away your right to
> express yourself. This channel however is not public, even though it comes
> close. This channel also has a set topic.

For me, it _is_ about censorship. If there is censorship, no amount of
freedom on other areas is worthy.

How can the policy of a a group be off-topic for the group? Censorship
in this mailing list is the policy or it is not. Avoiding to be clear or
to soften its impact by giving justifications or changing its name for
moderation, only makes matters worse.

> This is just another drop in the ocean. No one will fix anything while the
> storm is raging.

A feeling is not quenched by ignoring other people's feelings and
values. The storm will calm quickly when all people's feelings are out
in the open and an agreement is reached without impositions. We do not
have to agree on everything, just the basic to carry on. Other
alternatives will cause even more pain for everyone. Even the most
productive and speedy work can be hindered by misunderstandings.

> I think I can see where your anger stems from, it could be positive to
> have somewhere to talk about the issues that have surfaced over the last week
> or so, in addition to other similar things that come forth now and again.

For me, it all starts with the exclusion from the blog post and
subsequent refusal to accept another point of view on an equal space.
Then it was about how I found out about the strange goings regarding
presumptions of nonfree software on the Guix repos and the admins not
taking the matter seriously and rather avoiding to make all effort to
find it and remove it. And now the threat to be censored is, for some,
enough to avoid expressing themselves for fear of becoming ostracized
and for others it is a humiliation.

Free speech is one basic rights of the Universal Declaration of Human
Rights. If that is irrespected, there is nothing in this project but
software. There would be no more freedom: speech or FSDG.

My messages could have been avoided and I would have just thought about
this and not expressed it. But for me, it is the right of the members of
this list to know about my position, instead of receiving a blow from
the back as has happened to others in the community lately.

> At the same time I've been watching the list and seeing the behaviour from
> some of the participants in these discussions makes me doubt if it would
> bring anything other than more hatred and aggression. And that makes me
> grieve.

I think that aggression is on the mind of the hurt. If the target does
not feel hurt, it causes little damage. A person can be angry and hurt.
A person can try to cause damage. But the most damage can be only caused
by the target herself. The blog post has caused more damage to Guix than
any of the messages which expressed disagreement.

> I hope you stop this fight, your energy is much needed elsewhere. Guix needs
> our cooperation and willingness to work together despite differences of
> opinion.

This is not a fight (at least for me). It is a desperate intent of
saving Guix from being an unwelcome project. I agree there is a lot of
energy consumption. But I think Guix deserves this right to self
defense. Cooperation can only be attained by inclusion and mutual
acceptance, instead of impositions. Those have been my intentions from
the start of this problem. I have tried to be civil and respectful; not
in a false, superficial and diplomatic way; but in a sincere and frank
attitude. I hope this message is taken in that context.

I don't think trust can be recovered after the previous attitudes from
all sides. But we can at least cooperate separately, if we can reach an
agreement.

Happy hacking!
Quiliro