Re: Proposal to remove the off-topic, not free software related thoughtcrime accusations from the Guix project pages on GNU.ORG websitew

[Jean Louis]

* Alexander Vdolainen <address@hidden> [2019-10-09 23:13]:

> I'm nobody (yep, I'm using GNU Guile, GNU Emacs and GUIX and a lot
> of other GNU projects (make, gcc, binutils etc ...), but I'm not a
> great contributor yet). However those events are going to look like
> a decision point to move on from GNU community sw.

I feel disgusted by Ludovic Courtès not for reasons of him having an
opinion, but for reason that he is using GNU platform to bring hatred
into GNU community. Would he be using facts, I would not be that much
upsate. Would he answer on my questions to provide me facts, I would
not be that upset.

He did answered to me, he said the fact is that RMS used abort() joke.

So one joke for which he has no sense of humor is just enough to say
how RMS has undermined core values of GNU project "over years".

Ludovic Courtès is hypocrat that is using GNU platform to destroy both
Guix and GNU project. He is probably unaware of that, as good behavior
is something one gets from parents. He does not know what is he
doing. That is why the FSF need to have policy makers and policy
enforcers to remove such hatred from GNU Project website (Guix).

> > to oppose free software, and there are numerous facts of his good
> > deeds for free software, for haven's sake he is the founder of the
> > GNU Project and the Free Software Foundation, such wishy-washy
> > statements have no place on GNU.ORG domain.

> Agreed. And again it all looks like a personal war.

I would be immature to accuse RMS, but anybody, without verifying the
facts and without trying to speak to that person first. Isn't that
most humane and friendly?

Most of all, I would not accuse anybody of thoughtcrime, for their
free speech and opinions. If somebody has bad sense of humor, I will
simply not laugh. Not so for Ludovic Courtès, he finds simple joke
good reason enough to bash on RMS who provided him webspace, domain,
platform, and community, and whole organization and funding through
the FSF. Unbelievable.

And he has not a slightest sense of integrity to recognize what harm
is he doing to RMS and GNU and Guix and the FSF and the community.

There are if not thousands of comments on Ludovic Courtès disgraceful
statement on Internet, but none of them have been re-published or
allowed on Guix pages. They are just biased. They openly said in the
Guix IRC log that they will not allow any comments on their
statements.

What RMS shall do, in my opinion, and I am not RMS, he shall enforce
policies and remove such from Guix projects, or let the Guix project
be hosted elsewhere outside of GNU.ORG domain and website. But he is I
guess waaaay to kind for something like that to happen, and from FSF I
never found public information that they are enforcing some good
behavior guideliness.

That is harassment, can harassment of RMS stop?

Can generalizations stop?

Can those rumors stop? Why they need to be spread on GNU.ORG website?

 > Thus I am proposing to FSF, and any reader of this message to kindly
> > ask those people to either provide facts, or to retract their
> > statements from Guix and GNU pages.
> How can I help with that ?

Write to those people who signed the disgraceful statement and tell
them your opinion. Ask them for facts. Ask them is one or few jokes
and opinions of RMS really worth to defame, slander and ruin his well
being and position in the community?

In fact, would I be RMS, I would replace those projects, fork them,
and let those rumor mongers go out of the GNU project.

GNU.ORG domain belongs to RMS, directly or indirectly.

Imagine my father gives my bed, room, food, education and money for
living, and then I go spiting in the face of my father.

I am saying no to that behavior.

But even if it would not be my father, I have respect to people who
are first older then me, and I wait with my judgments, and second, I
have great respect of people who have done social betterment actions,
like RMS did for this planet.

> > Those undersigners on the defamatory statement as published by
> > Ludovic Courtès are not representing the community neither they
> > have such authorizations. Statement is written by some amateur,
> > that is not public relation, that is hatred. That is harassment
> > and defamation.
> > 
> > Additionally it is criminal act in France.
> It's time to use a court ...

As I said, knowing RMS, he is waay too kind, he would probably never
do something like that. But I wonder how Ludovic Courtès allows
himself to commit criminal acts in France. Even I would never charge
him, for reasong that I would not like to vomit when I see him face to
face.

> I suppose people acts like the pointed 'undersigners' should go away
> and enjoy political shit they are proposing somewhere in twitter or

Exactly, they shall resign from GNU project.

That is hostile takeover attempt.

GNU.ORG belongs to RMS, I just wish he would be using more of his
authority and take over GNU project to RMS back and assign it only to
trusted people.

Those signers are not trusted people. They are all currently abusing
the GNU project, doing exactly that what they have accused RMS of.

> ...  loony girl from salesforce will provide such place, I don't
> know. The point is - it's all *not* about GNU, and gnu.org isn't a
> place for a dummy war of social justice monkeys warriors.  GNU is a
> mostly technical organization built for those who are ready to
> contribute (or use at least) to the free software, and that space
> doesn't have enough room for hysterical monkeys following modern
> leftist movement. Personally, I think that all this political shit
> over RMS is a way to split a community and to get more points for
> this stupid movement.

Let me use some of set theory:

- there is larger and broader community of free software supporters,
  users, which includes the political movements of open source and BSD
  and everything together

- there is smaller community of GNU free software supports who
  understand differences between open source and free software, and
  they are all pretty much friendly to each other. They may like GNU
  project or think being theirs, for example, I think that I am part
  of GNU. Thinking is not same as really having a position in GNU
  project. 

- and there is GNU project which consists of authorized people who are
  actually providing software and maintaining the GNU project.

- and then within that group there is now a hostile takeover group of
  people starting with Ludovic Courtès and his "fellows" where none of
  them could answer my email to provide me with the facts about their
  statement. They are behaving against established implicit and
  explicit GNU guidelines, and so far nobody from FSF is enforcing any
  policy against them. They are danger to GNU project.

My solution would be radical and simple: ask them to refrain damaging
GNU project, or fork their software, and expell them from GNU project.

AS SIMPLE AS THAT.

> > Let us clean GNU.ORG pages from personal opinions on RMS opinions.
> > 
> > They do not even communicate with each other. There is no
> > friendship or sense of community on such statement.
> > 
> > GNU project was created to get a friendly community of hackers,
> > please see GNU manifesto, and not to endorse separations.

> Again, if someone is quite damaged about some political shit (but
> personally I didn't find anything in RMS opinion) or social justice
> thing he or she should go away, gnu is about technical things and
> there are no place for alternatively mind-gifted people cares about
> ... about nothing, but they own importance.

Exactly, they shall remove themselves from GNU project. Let it be.

So far I know several people have resigned from Guix and GNU due to
their hostile behavior against RMS. Several people have stopped
donating money which is real damage to the FSF.

> > What Ludovic Courtès is doing is exactly that, he is producing
> > hatred, separation, making division in the friendly GNU free
> > software community.
> > 
> > Let me repeat, I do not mind what he is saying against RMS, but I
> > do mind that GNU.ORG is platform for his personal opinions.
> > 
> > Further his statement was never collective how it is called, it
> > was his statement and he asked other people to sign.
> > 
> > My opinion on your signing of that defamatory, harassing, biased
> > and fact-less statement is here:
> > https://gnu.support/richard-stallman/Ludovic-Court%C3%A8s-Guix-is-accusing-Stallman-of-Thoughtcrime-on-his-own-domain-GNU-org.html
> > 
> > I am entitling you to your opinion. I could not care less what
> > people write about each other, whatever rumours or facts would
> > be. I don't mind.
> > 
> > But I do not approve on publishing that on GUIX website or GNU.ORG
> > website. Neither I approve of publishing such statements without
> > commenting possibility.
> > 
> > That is why I am asking you to speak out your mind now. I will
> > publish your opinion or lack of opinion. I will publish facts you
> > provide me or lack of those facts.
> > 
> > So far there is no fact that support their statements.
> > 
> > Free speech is human right, and RMS has free speech rights, and
> > why he shall be embarassed, defamed, harassed on his own domain?

> Again, I'm agree with you here.

> > Please FSF and whoever is responsible and acting, join in the
> > quest to remove the off-topic politics from GNU.ORG website pages,
> > so that we stick to promotion of free software, just as quoted
> > from here: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/kind-communication.html
> > 
> > The only political positions that the GNU Project endorses are (1)
> > that users should have control of their own computing (for
> > instance, through free software) and (2) supporting basic human
> > rights in computing.
> > 
> > Let those few people NOT represent GNU project, as GNU project
> > never harassed anybody in this manner, and let us not allow
> > selected few of them to destroy those good feelings of community.
> > 
> > Jean
> >