Re: learning Emacs Lisp

[Richard Riley]

Tassilo Horn <tassilo@member.fsf.org> writes:

> Richard Riley <rileyrgdev@gmail.com> writes:
>
> Hi Richard,
>
>> [...] but Xah Lee is an excellent resource with carefully argued
>> points and practical approach to, amongst other things, eLisp usage.
>
> This is a joke, isn't it?

Not in the slightest. I can only assume the bit you snipped about some
more established Emacs users disagreeing with him applies to you? Or the
tone suggests that.

>
> When learning a language it's better to take a look at polished code
> that uses this language's idioms.  Xah's on a crusade against even the
> most basic stuff like correct indentation...

By correct indentation I guess you mean the established custom? I cant
disagree that customs are good but personally I think the established
custom in elisp is rather awkward to the extreme. Not that i dont try to
adhere to it :-; But even looking around the C world we see various
indentation standards and everyone is entitled to their view. A constant
style is, of course, better for everyone although it does not
immediately mean that constant style is the best. As a programmer for
years I can not even begin to understand how and why eLisp bracketing
standards became as they did other than maybe to save screen real estate
in the VT100 type days. FWIW, I think saving space is better for the eye
too in some ways but I find "at a glance" analysis of most eLisp code
almost impossible because of the standard of grouping all closing
brackets.

>
> The best resources for elisp are
>
>   (info "(eintr)Top")
>
> and
>
>   (info "(elisp)Top")

For eLisp reference maybe.  But I found Xah Lee's tutorial very
good. Its a programmers introduction and gets to the key points quickly
in an ordered manner and grouped in logical sections.

*shrug*

We all prefer different methods. But I like his practical learn by doing
approach.

>
> together with the online help (`C-h ?').  All of these are included in
> emacs.

If I might be so bold as to mention I added a context help addition which
shows you the function or variable under point as an extension to eldoc:

http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs-fr/ElDoc#toc6

>
> And of course, you learn a language best by speaking/programming in it.
> But Drew already said that.

Of course. But eLisp is special in that its almost unreadable to the
typical procedural programmer fluent in C/C++ etc until you know a lot
if it already. Or that was my experience. And we all have different
experiences so it does no harm to remain open as to what suits other
people.

I found Xah Lee's tutorial very useful and feel it would certainly
benefit some others too.

>
> Ah, and there's this (and other emacs related newsgroups) + #emacs on
> freenode where you can ask your questions.
>
> Bye,
> Tassilo

-- 
 important and urgent problems of the technology of today are no longer the 
satisfactions of the primary needs or of archetypal wishes, but the reparation 
of the evils and damages by the technology of yesterday.  ~Dennis Gabor, 
Innovations:  Scientific, Technological and Social, 1970