Re: Guix (and Guile's) promise, and how to (hopefully) get there

[Maxim Cournoyer]

Hey,

"Thompson, David" <dthompson2@worcester.edu> writes:

> On Sun, Oct 27, 2024 at 3:13 PM Ekaitz Zarraga <ekaitz@elenq.tech> wrote:
>>
>> Many people on this project have tried to change GNU from the inside and
>> are very critical with the FSF (see the https://gnu.tools/). I think
>> that's also a good way to do things, changing them from the inside.
>> Fixing them for all our friends. Honestly, the argument of getting
>> distance with GNU and the FSF is too simplistic to be taken seriously.
>
> Changing GNU/FSF from the inside has been a losing strategy for at
> least a decade, as a conservative estimate. Nothing has meaningfully
> changed for the better and the situation continues to deteriorate both
> socially and infrastructurally. Many have tried to reform GNU, all
> have failed. Some burn out and never return. Those that remain choose
> to inhabit the fringes; projects that are historically GNU but in
> practice are no longer concerned with the project as a whole (Guile
> and Guix, for example.) We unsubscribe from gnu-prog-discuss and move
> on. Thinking that GNU can be changed at this point is what is truly
> too simplistic to be taken seriously. The GNU brand is and has been a
> net negative for Guix. Juli did a great job describing why in an
> earlier message. Every conversation about Guix I stumble upon online
> inevitably derails into a negative discussion about GNU and it's hard
> to break through the noise to explain that Guix is really cool,
> actually. It's not priority #1, but we gotta eschew GNU.

I'm late to the party but I thought I'd voice my feeling as I read this,
catching up slack on the ML.  I find the assertions, or more
specifically, the level of assertiveness, that GNU is or has been a net
negative for GNU a pretty simplified world view, at least from my
perspective.

I believe GNU's largest contribution is to provide a philosophical
foundation, e.g. articulating the software freedoms.  They've also
proven dedicated in upholding the same goals they've set forth from the
beginning; that's not something many organizations can be entrusted
with.

I know that some contributors (you can count myself as one), got
interested in Guix *thanks* to its association with GNU.  That you
assert so confidently that it's been a 'net negative' for the project
almost feels insulting.

I also do not happen to share your experience with people looking up to
GNU or the FSF in a bad eye, but I don't take part in hip
Mozilla/Microsoft/trendy-tech-of-the-moment sponsored events, so who
knows.

-- 
Thanks,
Maxim