Re: Emacs-Guix released outside from Guix

[Alex Kost]

Ludovic Courtès (2016-12-18 11:32 +0100) wrote:

> Hi Alex,
>
> Alex Kost <address@hidden> skribis:
>
>> Ludovic Courtès (2016-12-15 18:39 +0100) wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Alex!
>>>
>>> Alex Kost <address@hidden> skribis:
>>>
>>>> Hello, I've been working on Emacs interface outside from the Guix repo
>>>> for some time, I mean I'm not going to maintain it inside Guix, sorry :-(
>>>>
>>>> The main reason, is, well, inconvenience for me: I don't like to bother
>>>> people with patches, etc.  I tried to explain it at
>>>> <http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2016-07/msg01091.html>.
>>>
>>> As someone who’s always trusted you to do the right thing, I’m of course
>>> disappointed that we Guix folks didn’t get notified nor consulted before
>>> the fact.  I would also have loved a reply to my message back then¹.
>>> That’s your choice though.
>>>
>>> ¹ https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2016-07/msg01110.html
>>
>> I'm sorry for not answering, I thought I was clear at the time.
>
> I thought I was clear too, that message called for your feedback (and
> this one does too!).  Dialog is a two-way street.

But I answered this time!  Sorry if I wasn't clear enough, I tried to
explain my reasons several times, but I can try again.

>> I always feel uncomfortable to send patches or to push commits to the
>> Guix repo.  I can't explain it properly, it's just painful all the
>> time; but more importantly, it slowed down the development, as I often
>> decided not to do small changes.  Contrary, I made more commits to the
>> Emacs-Guix source tree in the past month, than to the Guix repo during
>> the whole year.
>
> I have the same questions as John: what is it that made you feel
> uncomfortable?  I stated clearly multiple times that you are effectively
> “sudoer” on this code.

It's not enough for me: developing an own project is incomparably easier
for me than participating in other people's project.

> Let’s reflect on this for all the future Alexes that come around.  If
> you are in my position, what do you do to make it so that the next Alex
> feels comfortable and happy with this workflow?  What does it take to
> avoid an “Alexit”?  :-)
>
> That’s an honest question: I cannot state what I did wrong, but I’d like
> to learn so it doesn’t happen again.

You did nothing wrong!  It's a nature of such Alexes: we don't like to
communicate with people and we try to avoid it as much as possible.

>>> This change will prevent joint feature development (updating
>>> completions, ‘emacs-build-system’ and how it interacts with the Emacs
>>> UI, M-x guix, cross-cutting changes to the UI, and so on).  This isn’t
>>> good news for users.
>>>
>>> Breakage will occasionally occur as the Guix APIs change, which will
>>> make us all a bit sad.  What are your thoughts?
>>
>> Well, I was going to make a release and to update the 'emacs-guix'
>> package after fixing such a breakage.  Actually this way doesn't look
>> worse for me: when breakages happened in the past, the only way to fix
>> it was to update 'guix-devel' package.
>
> That will be even harder with separate projects.
>
> What about joint feature development (see above)?

Well, when I will notice some related change in Guix, I will do an
according change in Emacs-Guix.  Or someone else will report about it.
If no one will notice or report, then it does not matter.

>>>> So I'd like to add 'emacs-guix' package (the current patchset) and to
>>>> remove it from the Guix source tree, if you don't mind.
>>>
>>> I think “if you don’t mind” is misplaced.
>>
>> No, it's not misplaced; not sure what you mean.
>
> Saying “if you don’t mind” for a decision that is effectively imposed on
> others without discussion is harsh, to put it mildly.

When I wrote "I'd like ... if you don't mind", I politely tried to ask
for a permission to add 'emacs-guix' package, as not allowing me to do
that was one of the possible answers.  I didn't discuss my decision
because I don't like discussions.  Besides, it's a one man's self-willed
decision, how other people could change it without tortures?

[...]
> Pardon me for being grumpy, I’m just feeling sad and frustrated.

No problems, it's not a disaster after all.  If you still wish to use
it, you can just install it as you install other Emacs packages.

-- 
Alex