Re: [Groff] Future direction of groff

[Clarke Echols]

On 02/04/2014 07:42 PM, James K. Lowden wrote:
> On Tue, 4 Feb 2014 15:43:11 -0500
> "Eric S. Raymond" <address@hidden> wrote:
>
> > I have to say, unfortunately, that I think the entire
> > presentation-centric model within which groff lives just about run
> > its course.  The future belongs to structural markup and stylesheets,
> > because of the requirement for rendering in multiple output media
> > including the Web.
>
> Hmm, seems to me every document is presentation-centric, depending on
> what that means.  Are you suggesting Postscript and PDF are not long
> for this world?  Are we doomed to the eyesores produced by
> lousy-browser ebook readers?
>
> > The one thing I thing we could usefully salvage from the groff model
> > is the notion of stacked DSLs for special formatting tasks - pic, eqn,
> > grap, chem and the like.
>
> Yes, yes!  Say it, bother!  Rebarbative it may be, but at least troff
> syntax was intended human beings to use.
>
> > Cutting them loose from their groff-centric assumptions and making
> > them generate more modern low-level formats like XSL-FO and SVG is a
> > groff2 I could get behind
>
> Nothing stands in the way of another post-processor, groxslfo, right?
> But then what?  What device recognizes that?  I know there's a
> tremendous bunch of XMLy things, but generally they end up producing
> Postscript or HTML.  The longer the chain, the more complex, and the
> more difficult to promulgate formatting decisions.

I build web pages with XHTML and CSS, period.  I don't even use
WordPress because it's as inefficient and confining as Word is for
people who want "pretty" but haven't a clue about typography and the
ability to control exact page placement.

I build ebooks, printed books, white papers, special reports, and even
business letters using good ol' reliable groff (and troff before that
when I was still at HP).  I've even created artwork for manufacturing
printed circuits because I didn't have access to CAD softward!  And
the project landed Motor Magazines award that year for "Top 20 New
Automotive Service Tools" (I designed the electronics -- another
company did the mechanical stuff).

I'm quite content with groff, as-is (version 1.21).  It's perfectly
adequate for what I need to do.  I just wish I had more fonts to
play with.

As for electronic displays, being a technical user, I have a hard time
relating to the "ordinary" Joe on the street who wants "pretty" and has
no clue about type.  I don't have an I-phone, I-mac, I-pad, or
I-anything-else.  I haven't even owned a cell phone.

Just an old curmudgeon, I guess.

Clarke