Re: [Groff] Integer arithmetic

[Miklos Somogyi]

On 16/10/2009, at 05:30 PM, Werner LEMBERG wrote:

> > Nevertheless I spent a few weeks on this integration thing and
> > produced a longish report on what can be done and how, and gave an
> > example.  Graphics, far more complex than what you can hope from
> > pic, embedded in groff.  I haven't got a single answer, apart from
> > the usual thing: this file is too big, cut it down.  Did not feel
> > appreciated.
>
> What exactly are you referring to?  I have a
>
>  ps-in-groff.tar.gz
>
> bundle in my inbox which you've sent three years ago to the list.  Do
> you mean this?

Yes.

> > I was wondering what was the cause of this no answer.
>
> What answer did you expect?

I don't know. I put considerable effort into it, I did not expect  
silence as if nobody had a look at it.

> > Was my contribution worthless?  Was graphics in groff not welcome?
>
> How do you get these impressions?  I consider the groff mailing as a
> kind of archive which collects useful tips regarding the troff suite.
> Your tar bundle is part of that bundle.

I appreciate that. But I don't think that it would inspire people to  
write directly
to the archive.

> > The whole thing boils down to a few questions: what is the role of
> > groff in the gnu world?
>
> Unfortunately, its importance for GNU documentation is zero.
> Officially, the GNU people prefer the texinfo documentation system.

Werner, my point is: why is it zero for them? Are they bad boys or  
they just
feel that groff in its present state is not a worthy contender?

> > Why doesn't it get more attention then maintaining?
>
> Because it's just me who works on groff from time to time, noone
> else.  And I have a lot of other things to do.

Werner,  my question  is not why you don't do more, but why are you  
alone?
Your contribution is very much appreciated, but is the job calls fore  
more people,
why are you alone?

> > And why to maintain nroff and similar things for those few who still
> > can not afford to buy a laser printer, at the expense of the many
> > who can?
>
> Well, the most important usage of groff is exactly that, namely to
> format man pages!

Well, if we are happy with that, then there is nothing else to say.
I am very sorry because we have here a lot of very knowledgeable people,
because we still have a need for a 21th century scientific- 
mathematical-engineering
word processor, because this need and this knowledge are not matched.

And man pages with pic-level graphics automatically excludes  
scientific-math-engineering users,
the ones who crave most for a good wordprocessor.

> > And, at the same token, why do we restrict the size of e-mails to
> > accommodate the very few who can not get adsl at the expense of the
> > vast majority op people who can.
>
> For mailing lists, I consider a mail size limit very useful; I approve
> all emails sent to the groff mailing list regardless of their size if
> it makes sense.

It took me a lot of extra work to make the ps-in-groff small. Perhaps
I should have left it big and make more sense instead :-)

Werner, from time-to-time you find people like Patrik and me jumping  
up-and-down
about integers and pic for engineering, etc.
Please note that such outbursts are because we love troff and would  
like to see it
modernized, not to offend you.

I hope that one day you and Ted and Tadziu and others would come  
together to define a new
scientific-engineering-mathematical wordprocessor  with real math, no  
more than one backslashes,
at least with still graphics etc, then you would lead a bunch of  
programmers to put these
requirements into shape.

     Miklos

>    Werner