RE: [Groff] Groff editor.

[Meg McRoberts]

Actually, I'm thinking that, if you used Eric Raymond's
groff-to-xml converter, you wouldn't really have to learn
all the advanced groff stuff because basically you'd just
be reversing the directives

--- "Karee, Srinivas" <address@hidden> wrote:

> This is an option (but I have to learn advanced groff, I know only the
> basics of groff). When I started this thread, I thought there could be
> plenty of tools which does this job.
> 
> I appreciate all the responses. Thank you very much.
> 
> Srini.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Meg McRoberts [mailto:address@hidden 
> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 3:29 PM
> To: Karee, Srinivas; Clarke Echols
> Cc: address@hidden
> Subject: RE: [Groff] Groff editor.
> 
> Thanks for the explanation...  You do have a bit of a conundrum here.
> How frequently does this file need to be modified?
> 
> I am rapidly getting in over my head here, but one thought is that,
> since Eric Raymond's groff-to-xml converter is open source, it wouldn't
> be too tough to make a version that then converts XML back to groff.
> You might be able to modify the source to eliminate any coding that is
> not converting well so that it's a clean conversion in both directions.
> 
> If this file needs frequent maintenance and the application has a long
> future, it might actually be easier to rewrite the code that uses this
> file to use XML, then convert the file to XML and go forward with that.
> 
> I guess it depends on what sort of information has to be changed, too.
> For example, if this is a price list and the users just need to modify
> the price amount and perhaps add/remove items, it might be possible to
> write a little application for them that pulls the info from the groff
> file, displays it in some friendly format, then modifies the groff file
> in the background for them...  I remember being involved in something
> like this years ago -- the trick was to use comment lines that contained
> some unique string before and after the lines that were modified...
> 
> meg
> 
> 
> --- "Karee, Srinivas" <address@hidden> wrote:
> 
> > This is existing code (groff) which I picked-up for the enhancement, I
> > cannot replace groff, there is quite a code which uses groff. I could
> > ask users to do that tag thing as you suggested but they do
> > ADDING/MODIFYING and DELETING lines/words and you know users they
> don't
> > want to write these tags.
> > 
> > I need to save the file as groff file after the editing because
> current
> > framework uses groff file to send the fax to customers and printing
> > work.
> > 
> > So even if I can convert groff to PDF or XML or PS file and let users
> > edit the file, I need a way to convert it back to groff file. Unless I
> > rewrite the code which uses groff file post editing.
> > 
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Srini.
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Meg McRoberts [mailto:address@hidden 
> > Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 2:39 PM
> > To: Karee, Srinivas; Clarke Echols
> > Cc: address@hidden
> > Subject: RE: [Groff] Groff editor.
> > 
> > Why do you need to maintain this as a groff file?  Perhaps if we
> > understood
> > that we could help you find a better solution.
> > 
> > I happen to love groff and I can code it very quickly.  What I have
> done
> > in
> > this situation is give the user the formatted ASCII file and tell them
> > to
> > edit it, sticking some string like "SRINI START" and "SRINI END"
> before
> > and
> > after any changes they make.  Then I manually make their changes to
> the
> > groff
> > source, inserting the appropriate codings.  It's basically the same
> > procedure
> > as if they hand-wrote comments on a formatted draft...
> > 
> > I think that converting the file to Docbook/XML would preserve the
> > bold/italic
> > fonts and probably most of the tables unless the tables were coded by
> > someone
> > who went crazy with the coding.  And it gives you a text source file
> > which is
> > very nice for source code control.  So you get a lot of the benefits
> of
> > groff
> > with a format for which there are tools like you want.
> > 
> > I haven't worked with the any PDF editing software but, theoretically,
> > it should retain all the formatting for you. I just googled "edit PDF
> > file"
> > and got some interesting hits -- software that converts PDF to XML
> (it's
> > shaded at the top of the list and that site seems to allow you to
> submit
> > a
> > test file for conversion for free to see the results).
> > 
> > Those of us on this list love groff and so I certainly don't mean to
> > discourage
> > you from learning it and joining us ;-)  However, the learning curve
> is
> > fairly
> > significant...   XML has many of the advantages of groff but editors
> > such as
> > XMetal (and others, and I haven't actually worked with any of them so
> > this is
> > not an endorsement -- google "XML editors" if you want to investigate)
> > give you
> > the ability to maintain the text-based source with visible formatting
> > and yet
> > have a WYSIWYG editor as an alternative to manual coding...
> > 
> > meg
> > 
> > --- "Karee, Srinivas" <address@hidden> wrote:
> > 
> > > This file does not contain any pics, it has some tables, I can
> covert
> > it
> > > to ascii (-Tascii) and show to the users. But my requirement is for
> > user
> > > to edit the file and I should able to save it back in groff format
> and
> > > use user edited (groff file) file for printing on the PS printer and
> > > sending fax.
> > > 
> > > Basically I cannot lose bold/italic/font and other stuff. I am new
> to
> > > groff, so I thought there could be some tools which I could buy and
> > > workout this requirement, but looks like there are no tools out
> there
> > > which I can use.
> > > 
> > > Srini.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Meg McRoberts [mailto:address@hidden 
> > > Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 2:03 PM
> > > To: Karee, Srinivas; Clarke Echols
> > > Cc: address@hidden
> > > Subject: RE: [Groff] Groff editor.
> > > 
> > > What sort of document is this?  Is it mostly text or are there
> > > a lot of tables, graphics, and such?
> > > 
> > > I can think of a few ways that one might get the content into
> > > some sort of WYSIWYG editor, but the fancier the formatting,
> > > the less satisfactory these will be:
> > > 
> > > - Run the text into formatted ASCII then import the formatted text
> > >   into Word or some other editor.  A command similar to the
> following
> > >   might work:
> > > 
> > >   groff -mandoc -stC -Tascii <filename>| col -b > <filename>.txt
> > > 
> > >   This is for man page source -- replace -mandoc with the
> appropriate
> > >   string if the document is using a different set of macros.
> > > 
> > >   You will loose all bold/italic and lots of other stuff but it will
> > >   get you text that does not show the formatting characters.
> > > 
> > > - Run the text into PDF and then try a PDF editor.  I know that
> > > Broderbund
> > >   is selling such an editor but I haven't used it.  The following
> > > commands
> > >   will create PDF from a groff file (these are the commands I use --
> > > perhaps
> > >   someone will have a more elegant method) -- note that you have to
> > > create
> > >   a PostScript file and then convert the ps file to PDF:
> > > 
> > >   groff -mandoc -st <filename> > <filename>.ps
> > >   ps2pdf <filename>.ps <filename>.pdf
> > > 
> > > - Convert the groff code to Docbook/XML; editors like you want are
> > > available
> > >   for XML.  Here is some information about a tool that does this:
> > > 
> > >   http://www.xmlhack.com/read.php?item=1749
> > > 
> > > These are not perfect solutions but would allow you to capture the
> > text
> > > into a format that can be maintained without learning groff.  
> > > 
> > > meg
> > > 
> > 
>