Re: unsuitable protocols and standards that block innovation

[Martin Schanzenbach]

On Sat, 2024-03-16 at 21:35 +0200, MSavoritias wrote:
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> On 3/16/24 20:57, t3sserakt wrote:
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> > On 16.03.24 18:54, MSavoritias wrote:
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> > > On 3/16/24 17:08, carlo von lynX wrote: 
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> > > > On Fri, Mar 15, 2024 at 04:19:21PM +0200, MSavoritias wrote:
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> > > > > > Federation has failed us big time and it is all the reason
> > > > > > why GNUnet exists. 
> > > > > >  
> > > > >  By federation i mean that the room is hosted by all
> > > > > participants. We can 
> > > > >  call it distributed too. 
> > > > >  
> > > >  
> > >  
> >  Maybe you should have a look onto
> > https://docs.gnunet.org/latest/users/messenger.html and
> > https://www.gnunet.org/en/news/2024-03-messenger-gtk-0.9.0.html
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> Right thats one of the thing on my list to take notes from thanks :D
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> It has interesting properties especially around egos that i want to
> bring over to my app.
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> > > > > Any future architectures should make sure that the spam
> > > > > message doesn't even 
> > > > >  reach the recipient to begin with. 
> > > > >  
> > > >  That's what we've been preaching to the advocates of the 
> > > >  broken Internet for years. Glad you arrived to the same 
> > > >  conclusions as us. 
> > > >  
> > >  
> > >  Does GNUnet plan to be a network of consent with capabilities?
> > > Because right now its just an open permissionless hellscape
> > > unless you turn on f2f but f2f is hopelessy worse than networks
> > > of consent. 
> > >  
> >  
> > The foundation for the way GNUnet is built are these design
> > principles
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> >    1. GNUnet must be implemented as Free Software.
> >    2. GNUnet must minimize the amount of personally identifiable
> > information exposed.
> >    3. GNUnet must be fully distributed and resilient to external
> > attacks and rogue participants.
> >    4. GNUnet must be self-organizing and not depend on
> > administrators or centralized infrastructure.
> >    5. GNUnet must inform the user which other participants have to
> > be trusted when establishing private communications.
> >    6. GNUnet must be open and permit new peers to join.
> >    7. GNUnet must support a diverse range of applications and
> > devices.
> >    8. GNUnet must use compartmentalization to protect sensitive
> > information.
> >    9. The GNUnet architecture must be resource efficient.
> >   10. GNUnet must provide incentives for peers to contribute more
> > resources than they consume.
> >  
> > You must be careful when to talk about permissionless. If you like
> > to have a meta data protecting and censorship resistant network you
> > need some basic network where no peer has to be allowed to join the
> > network. The communication in this layer is not about communication
> > between applications (users) talking to each other, but
> > communication needed to fulfill the above principles. Nevertheless
> > an application can implement what your are trying to achieve. See
> > the link to the messenger service and application above.
> >  
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> Hmm. I wonder how much the above overlap in a no servers networks.
> But yeah I should have been more specified sorry.
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> I am planning to have a browser and xmpp over gnunet app i have said
> so my views were from that mainly.
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> Gnunet seems to be taking a lot of right decisions dont get me wrong
> :)
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> > - t3sserakt
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> > P.S.: F2F was removed
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> Really? I swear i read it in some docs that I actually cant find the
> link to now (the modern looking centralized screen docs) /thinking
>  

I just recently also re-read that in the docs and then removed it.
The docs are (unfortunately) not in such a good shape right now.
Lots of things changed with 0.21 in particular, including the removal
of F2F.
There is a lot of outdated information and it is quite disorganized.

BR

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> MSavoritias
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