Re: [GNUe-dev] Re: [GNUe] packages?

[Derek Neighbors]

James Thompson said:
>>
>> I seriously consider removing the UI checks completely. It seems to be
>> #1 negative experience for people that want to try gnue. What would
>> others think about this?
>>
>
> I would be ok with this.  Or maybe we should extend our setup system to
> add a
>
> setup.py --dependency-check
>
> and place the checks in there.  As we originally added those to reduce
> the  number of questions that wound up being missing dependencies.

I am against removing them.  The question is, can forms work without at
least one UI installed?  If the answer is NO, then we should leave the
checks and make an option to disable them, not the other way around.
(imho)

Those checks were added because countless hours were spent in and
elsewhere helping people get GNUe installed.  It almost always was a case
that they did not properly install wxPython.

The main issue at that time is Python was transitioning from 1.5 to 2.x in
all distributions.  So people had both installed.  They would grab the
WRONG wxPython packages so would come up showing they "had it installed",
but it was for the wrong version.

I really think moving forward we want to be proactive in notifying people
that their setup is bad outside of GNUe so they don't blame GNUe.  I have
probably done the most tech support for new installs of GNUe over the
years.

The two biggest issues have always been NON GNUe issues that GNUe gets
blamed for:

1. Improper dependency installation.  Primary sample is not having all the
dependencies or having them installed against the wrong version of python.

2. Improper dependency configuration.  Primary example is database
configuration.  Users not having initializing the database, assigning
username/password or allowing proper connections.

I am seeing these same issues come up in this rash of complaints.  The
problem is GNUe is an Application Framework.  You don't install it and
magically have stuff work.  Someone brought up Delphi.  Well Through
Delphi 6.0 you didn't just setup Delphi and have it work.  You had to
understand your database and odbc (or whatever method you used to connect)
in order to do useful things.

The real gripe is we don't have a shrink wrapped application to "Demo"
GNUe.  I agree this is an issue we need to address, but for new
development people have to be developers to a degree.  An example is
Peoplesoft, SAP, JD Edwards, etc don't just ship you a CD and say "have
fun".  GNUe will be very similar.

Also note, I have given at least 3 hands on training classes attended by
10 - 30 people each time.  Where every person had their own computer and
were walked through the development of an application.  Not to mention
have done similar at several conferences.  I am available to do more of
this.  I think we need better manuals.  I have brokered a book deal for
GNUe book, but have not found people with the time to make the content.

Those that want help.  The developers are HERE to help you.  Just ask.

-Derek