Re: [Gnue-dev] New Guy

[Derek Neighbors]

> 1.  Code maintenance.  One of the reasons we love free software is
> because the  open-source development model makes for better code
> maintenance, but only if  you have other people working on the code too.
>  We need to shorten  development time, as well as lessen our longterm
> commitment to our own  homegrown solution.

I think with GNUe you can win one of two ways.  If you use a completely
GNUe solution, you should have a whole community helping you with
maintenance.  If you decide to use only the tools and make custom
applications at least your base tools are maintained by the community.

> 2.  Portability and pluggability.  Not only does it need to be
> cross-platform,  but it also has to be easily extensible.  This includes
> the database schema  as well.  We don't want to be in the trap of
> needing something from the  software and not being able to add it for
> any reason, or being tied to a  specific database server when we
> discover we need a different one.

GNUe certainly has this as one of its top mission statements.  Lock-in is
bad even if its locked into freedom. ;)

> GNUe is obviously strong in both of those major ones, and the way for us
> to be  able to exploit those benefits is to contribute our code to the
> GNUe project  specifically.  According to the GNUe website, it appears
> that you guys want a  series of applications built with the framework to
> install with the  out-of-the-box polish that makes executives want to
> open up their  pocketbooks, but without requiring them to do so.

Yip.

> So, what this all comes down to is this:  we want to build those
> applications.   Or rather, we want to work on them.  In order for the
> GNUe project to accept  them into the project (without which we'll still
> use it, we just agree it's  better this way for all of us), then they
> have to be built to GNUe's  standards as well as our own.  You guys have
> proven throughout the project to  us that you develop with similarly
> high standards as we do, so we just have  to prove it to you.  :)

Sounds great.  We have gone on "build the framework, they will come" for
applications development.  Perhaps you are some of the first to come. :)

> The question, then:  Is anybody working on them already?  If so, where
> would  we get the information we need to coordinate our own work with
> it?  Ideally,  if nothing has been started, then we would just work on
> the database schema,  work with the project on it, and then when we all
> agree that the database is  perfect,then we start working on the modules
> that we need for our business  and send them back to GNUe, working more
> or less independently at that point.

Currently there is an official project called GNUe Small Business Edition.
 That is starting to tackle applications.  It's main drive is 2 tier
(opposed to using appserver) and is much more a drive forward approach
opposed to getting total buy in from a large group.

This should help deliver applications quickly, but isn't as good as using
all the pieces of the framework and going before a large group and getting
mass approval on what the applications contain.

So at this point, I would say if you are wanting something quick and 2tier
is ok, probably you want to start putting input and effort into gnue-sb. 
If you want appserver and are not on as long of a time line, you probably
want to look at the already submitted proposals that exist and build on
them and get buy in on changes and move forward until appserver is ready
for primetime beatings.

> I don't have a full list of my partner's credentials for this sort of
> project,  I only know that he's been working with databases for a number
> of years and  has developed a few applications.  They've all been
> proprietary, though, and  used internally where he's worked.  (I've
> known him for years, and when we  usually talk about programming we talk
> about games)
>
> My credentials are short and unconvincing.  :)  Mostly, I've designed
> databases to deliver web content and built the server-side apps to do
> the  delivering.  I've built a few home financial databases, but nothing
> that's  been used and matured and so forth.  (Built it and said "This
> database is  broke", so built another one and said "This database is
> broke".  I'm going at  it again soon, though, for personal reasons :) )
> And I've worked on the  support end of sales calls trying to get NT
> administrators to install SQL  Server and buy the product I was selling
> at the time, but at that time I was  just showing them how to use our
> product with their database.  I have done  some fairly extensive report
> development, though, and that's definitely my  strongest area right now
> outside of delivering web content.

You will find in the GNUe world, we don't put much faith in 'credentials'.
 We just are happy for contributions. It's all about learning.

> Neither of us knows python, but we've both learned a number of
> programming  languages over the years and forgotten a few that we've
> learned (can you say  "pascal"?), so picking it up shouldn't be that
> hard.  Especially since  python's another c++-look-alike (and java, for
> that matter.  Ever play  RoboCode?).  We both have some pretty extensive
> experience with html, but not  much with xml.  NOt that xml is rocket
> science or anything...

I dont think there will be issues.  Application developers for GNUe really
should only need to understand database schema's and basic programming
structures to be productive.

> Bottom line: we want to join the project and work on the applications,
> and not  the framework.  :)  The framework already suits our needs,
> mostly.

GREAT.  We have been waiting patiently for more application developers. :)


-Derek