Re: gEDA-dev: Re: [Gnucap-devel] Gnucap docs build failure on FC5 (and other places)

[Russell Shaw]

Stuart Brorson wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Jul 2006, Russell Shaw wrote:
>
> > Stuart Brorson wrote:
> >
> > > > > Anyway, IMO we shouldn't require users to build .pdf files in their
> > > > > distributions.  Pdfs should just come with the distribution.  IMO a
> > > > > .pdf file is a "make dist" target, requiring the developer to have the
> > > > > right tools installed, not the user.
> > > >
> > > > If every package had pdf files already built, it would increase 
> > > > bandwidth usage a large amount (eg, from Debian repositories).
> > >
> > > That's silly.  The .pdf of Al's doc is about 1MB.  In a world where
> > > pimple-faced kids are downloading zillions of MB of songs all the
> > > time, a 1MB .pdf file is nothing.
> >
> > It's a relative scale. If your source is 100kB, then you've just 
> > multiplied the bandwidth traffic and charges to someone by a factor
>> of ten. Just because pimple face idiots are doing it, doesn't mean
>> anyone else should.
> Silly argument.  The cost difference of transporting 1MB vs. 100kB is
> infinitesimal.

But it is still x10. For a mirror that is getting thousands of downloads,
the total cost would be x10. The whole repository can be gigabytes in
size, and users can be doing automated distro upgrades once a month.

Those on 56k dialup would be really peeved having to wait for 1MB of
stuff they've already read.

> Moreover, pdf is modern, efficient (i.e. compressed),
> and -- most importantly for humans (and not bit-counters) -- works 
> nicely with systems where Latex is not installed by default
> (i.e. a lot of contemporary Linux distros).  Ultimately, I care more
> about the software user than the number of bits transported.

That's an attitude i really disagree with. It's the reason gtk and
other toolkits have got so slow and bloated on modern hardware.

Anyway, i just remembered what the correct way is. Large documents
are usually packed for a distro separately, so you can
apt-get install geda-doc.

> By your logic, we should all still be using "gopher" to surf the
> internet.

Html and browsers are ok. Megabyte flash animations are not, if it's
the only way to get into a site.

> As for me, if the Massachusetts IT department has approved pdf as
> sufficiently "open" (like ODF), then I have no problem using it.
>
> In any event, I am not interested in discussing with you about how
> many bits are wasted by including .pdf docs into a software
> distribution. If you really care about 100kB vs. 1MB, bully for you. 
> Moving forward, I will ignore any response you may have about this
> since I'd just be contributing to a ridiculous pissing match with a
> crank.

Obviously someone else is paying your bandwidth bills.

> Meanwhile, I *am* interested in hearing from others who might have
> some insight into  solving my problem.   What is the best way to set
> up a Makefile to generate .pdfs as a "make dist" target, and then have
> them simply installed when the end user does "make"?

Find another doc package and look at the automake.am.