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Re: [gNewSense-users] gobuntu or gnewsense?

From: Kevin Dean
Subject: Re: [gNewSense-users] gobuntu or gnewsense?
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 15:10:54 -0400

I think it may be unfair to call Gobuntu a "stooge" distro but I think
it may unintentionally do some of the things you mentioned. But I
think that works both ways as well...

I believe Mark Shuttleworth has a LEGITIMATE desire to put Free
Software on every computer in Ubuntu, but I also believe he's willing
to comprimise and use non-free software until there are Free

I think Gobuntu is his attempt to bring Free Software developers into
Ubuntu and achieve that goal.

Yes, Gobuntu and Ubuntu use the same repositories. Just like Kubuntu
and Ubuntu use the same repositories and gNewSense KDE uses gNewSense
repositories. The GOAL of Gobuntu can then be seen as a way to isolate
non-free aspects of Ubuntu and pin-point them.

Allow me to explain... As of this moment, Ubuntu has
"linux-kernel-image-X" which includes binary firmware. Gobuntu SHOULD
isolate this firmware and build a package linux-kernel-image-X without
it. Ubuntu could THEN build linux-kernel-image-X-firmware and include
that for uses willing to sacrifice their freedom. It could then, in
theory, be possible to apt-get remove --purge that same non-free
package without ending up kernel-less.

Please, look at that example with a bit of suspended disbelief... I
don't know if it's possible to seperate the kernel like that but the
idea stands.

I see gNewSense as a project to clean up Dapper to make it free, where
as I see Gobuntu as a way to clean up future versions of Ubuntu.
There's overlap, certainly. Even IF Gobuntu ends up being a stooge
distro, information can be shared among ALL Free Software projects,
including ones that may not be, and that benefits Free Software users
in general.

On 7/26/07, Chris Andrew <address@hidden> wrote:

Thanks for your clarification.  I didn't realise that Gobuntu encouraged the
use of other non-free software, although I did download it and it seemed to
be just another standard Ubuntu image.

I shall continue to try to lead on the gNS package freedom stuff, and keep
an eye on the gobuntu development.



On 26/07/07, Dave Crossland <address@hidden> wrote:
> On 26/07/07, Chris Andrew <address@hidden> wrote:
> >
> > To clarify my concerns; I am a little worried that the two distros have
> > similar (if not the same (perhaps any diff could be clarified)) aims.
> There was a thread about this on the gobuntu list:
> > From a personal perspective, I need to know what the difference between
> > two objectives is, so that I and others can make a concerted effort on
> > whatever distro is closest to a personal preference.
> All in my opinion, could very well be wrong, but hope to help:
> Gobuntu will be used as a 'stooge' distro -
- so
> Canonical can put more proprietary stuff in the main Ubuntu while
> providing an up-to-date and fully-free distro for those who want it
> and who look to them for guidance, and Canonical can point at Gobuntu
> to appease critics who value freedom above convenience,
> Recommending Gobuntu to people is questionable, since it recommends
> main Ubuntu and Canonical implicitly. This is partly why the FSF
> declined the name "Gnubuntu." Also, the FSF/GNU Project does not do
> its own distribution because all GNU/Linux distributions are GNU (plus
> Linux) and if there was "_a_ GNU distro" that might work against the
> promotion of that fact; we can imagine "Oh no, this distro is Linux,
> not GNU, because GNU is $fsf-or-gnu-distro" type comments... and the
> GNUbuntu name would contribute to that.
> So, independent of the FSF and GNU Project but with the help of the
> FSF (server & hosting to make it possible) the gNewSense distribution
> take a popular distro and makes it fully free, without directly
> endorsing or referencing the upstream disto. Therefore it is possible
> to recommend gNewSense to new users, safe in the knowledge that it
> will not recommend to them to install proprietary software or promote
> the idea that proprietary software is okay.
> gNewSense could be built off a more user-friendly distribution in the
> future - Novell seems to be putting at least as much effort into the
> desktop as Canonical, and Red Hat are keeping up with the new
> competition too. If Fedora is listed on the GNU project's recommended
> distros list - very possible, given
> -
this seems
> quite possible.
> Until then, to contribute to the development of gNewSense in the short
> term, help with the package checking, and long term, contribute to
> Gobuntu and help with the gNewSense artwork when its asked for by the
> project leads.
> I installed Gobuntu this week, and it appears to use the regular gusty
> apt repo, so as soon as you upgrade, the gobuntu stuff evaporates...
> Hmm...
> --
> Regards,
> Dave

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