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Re: [Fsuk-manchester] Constructivne Comment request


From: Tim Dobson
Subject: Re: [Fsuk-manchester] Constructivne Comment request
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 22:51:48 +0100
User-agent: KMail/1.9.9

On Wednesday 25 June 2008 18:40:02 Chris Rogers wrote:
> I've just read Michelle's article via your link and I have to agree with
> her.  I've been playing around with Linux on and off for several years and
> each time a new distro appears, I eagerly grab a copy and burn it to CD,
> either as a LiveCD or as a full installation on an old Compaq Deskpro
> lurking under the desk, hoping that I'll be able to turn my back on M$
> after 20 years in IT support, going back to CP/M and MS-DOS v3.

I'm sad to hear you agree, however I do find your response raises some 
intersting and valuable points :)
I was origianlly introduced to gnu/linux a long time ago, when i was on 
dialup. the distro was mandriva.
At the time I couldn't get the winmodem to work. 
Retrospectively that wasn't very long ago, compared to the people here who 
have known shell scripting since they were in nappies.

> Mostly I finish up disappointed.  Ubuntu 8.04 LTS seems to get closest to a
> usable desktop system but still isn't quite there yet - certainly not for
> the typical Windows user.

Defining a "typical" windows user is a categorically difficult thing, because, 
essentially, they don't exist.
I'm sure you would agree if I said that "pretty much everyone uses Windows".
This is the point - many people use their windows computers for a VAST range 
of things... just people on this list undoubtedly use their gnu/linux 
computers for a vast range of things.
I recently introduced a "typical" Windows "power user" to gnu/linux.
Apart from complaints such as 
"formatting usb devices is difficult from the file manager"
"dolphin sucks, can i have a different file manager"
"i want an easy option to stop the taskbar grouping things after 8 of the 
same"
and other similar things, he does not seem to be having any problems...

> Other distros tend to fail in one way or another, sometimes quite
> spectacularly.  Two distros (Fedora? Debian? Mandriva? OpenSUSE? - can't
> remember...) left me with a blank screen at startup when they switched from
> text mode to graphics.  

The thing about gnu/linux and different distros is that essentially their 
hardware support should be the same. gNewSense is a special case here, 
however it isn't very advisable to switch to different distros in search of 
better hardware support. in general this doesn't happen.

It's also worth pointing out that some of the distros - i learnt the hard way 
with debian - essentially drops you with a non-gui base system.
From here the idea is that you build what ever you need on top - a server 
system, a desktop etc.

So from that you can infer it isn't really suitable for "typical windows user 
installation" (I suspect people will refute this but i'm happy to say that)

This does not mean debian is useless or that gnu/linux is not suited 
to "typical windows users" indeed all it really means is that debian's #1 
purpose isn't to guide first time gnu/linux users through a gui desktop & 
install process.

> gNewSense, which I'd read about on this list, 
> couldn't even find the Ethernet port on the motherboard.  :o(

As I mentioned, gnewsense, is a special case among gnu/linux distributions 
because it *only* includes free software. I suspect your ethernet LAN port 
requires non-free firmware, which because gnewsense contains *only* free 
software means it won't work.
gnewsense is important for the community, even if you aren't ready to use it 
yet, because it sets a "gold standard" in software freedom

> As techies, we sometimes forget that for the typical user, the PC isn't an
> end in itself.  Mostly, all they want to do is read their email, surf the
> web, get music and play games. 

i would say that gnu/linux is pretty good at those tasks. 

> They don't want to know about the stuff 
> inside, in the same way as most people don't know what goes on under the
> bonnet of their car.

This is a very good point. 
I think the job that projects such as ubuntu are doing in making things 

> Some of the Free Software movement's stuff is outstanding.  OpenOffice and
> Firefox are both showing M$ how it should be done.

for me, it's not really about microsoft. occasionally they come out with 
intersting/depressing/frustrating comments but most of the time I tend to 
ignore them. 

I'm writing this from kmail listening to music with amarok, i'll probably 
watch something later with vlc, I have pidgin open with conversations with 
various people going on. 
There are some pieces of software which are ok which are free software and 
there are some that really rock. ubuntu have a habit of installing the bits 
that rock by default.

> They just get better 
> and better with each new release.

I can't disagree with this at all. If you think what GNU/Linux was like 10 
years ago ... "CDE" anyone?
or 15 years ~ MMC interim?
or even five years ago - winmodem crises!

You will notice the massive progress that has been made to a gnu/linux distro 
today.

today I see the largest problem for gnu/linux being the wave of non-free 
software included and or recommended by gnu/linux distros.

hope to see you at a meeting sometime, :)

Tim

-- 
www.tdobson.net
----
If each of us have one object, and we exchange them, then each of us
still has one object.
If each of us have one idea, and we exchange them, then each of us now
has two ideas.   -  George Bernard Shaw 




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