Re: [fsf-community-team] Freedom to become slaves?

[Edward Cherlin]

My personal definition of a Libertarian is "Believer in the right to
do anything that does not harm anybody else of any importance."
http://www.dkosopedia.com/wiki/Code_Words#Legal_technicalities-Liberty

See also Amartya Sen, Development as Freedom. Not about software
development. ^_^

On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 21:07, Simon Bridge <address@hidden> wrote:
> On Wed, 2009-12-16 at 15:03 +1100, Charlie wrote:
>> On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:32:40 +1300 Simon Bridge
>> <address@hidden> sent this information:
>>
>>
>> >On Wed, 2009-12-16 at 09:23 +1100, Charlie wrote:
>> >> On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 02:51:45 -0800 Mike VandeVelde
>> >> <address@hidden> sent this information:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >I use free software
>> >> >where I can, even in some places where it isn't exactly easy, but I
>> >> >use proprietary software in a lot of situations where I probably
>> >> >don't truly need to. So either kick me out of this club now, or
>> >> >you'll regret it later! Muwahaha!!
>> >>
>> >> Isn't that part of the freedom concept?
>> >
>> >What? Regretting it later?
>> >
>> >It is difficult to have a free society when members are free to become
>> >enslaved. That is why we have laws against chattel slavery.
>> >
>>
>> Freedom is just that, allowing people to become enslaved if they so
>> choose, after they have heard about the alternatives, or not. listen if
>> they so choose or not. Freedom with conditions isn't freedom. :-) Yet
>> anyone can have that and call it freedom.
>
> I am going to disagree with that - it sounds good but it is just
> semantics:  we have learned that a society in which anyone is enslaved
> is not a free society.
>
> The philosophy of freedom and what it means logically gets quite
> esoteric. I am trying to stay within conversational language and
> common-ground usage within the context of software freedom. Try not to
> mistake something which makes sense semantically to work in practice. In
> practice, we have seen, allowing slavery decreases the overall liberty
> of society.
>
> The ability to sell yourself into slavery can be argued to be an
> increase in liberty you have only if you never actually use it, after
> all, once done, your liberty is drastically decreased.
>
> To put it another way: if we agree that slavery is undesirable, then we
> *want* to be so restricted. We do *not* want absolute freedom you have
> described.
>
> In the gnu philosophy articles, the talk is of an ethical freedom.
>
> In practice the World is a mess of varying liberties and we have to live
> with that. In the free software movement we hope to increase the general
> liberty in society as a whole.
>
> We may have to agree to disagree here though the distinction is an
> important one for our community. Perhaps someone else would like to
> weigh in?
>
>
>
>



-- 
Edward Mokurai (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) Cherlin
Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation.
The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination.
http://www.earthtreasury.org/